I am a newly commissioned Officer. Is it okay for me to date enlisted women?

Question

Besides, the Enlisted women are younger and hotter.

I got a direct commission in the US ARMY medical service branch. I never went to OCS. I know about fraternization, but they never stressed it much in my officer basic course. Thank you. 2LT hardrocking joe US ARMY

Answer 1

I am a specialist in the U.S. army, and i know that Fraternization is against the UCMJ. It is in AR 600-20 here is the exact text from the Regulation.
4–14. Relationships between Soldiers of different rank
a. The term "officer," as used in this paragraph, includes both commissioned and warrant officers unless otherwise
stated. The provisions of this paragraph apply to both relationships between Army personnel (to include dual-status
military technicians in the Army Reserve and the Army National Guard) and between Army personnel and personnel of
other military services. This policy is effective immediately, except where noted below, and applies to different-gender
relationships and same-gender relationships.
b. Relationships between Soldiers of different rank are prohibited if they—
(1) Compromise, or appear to compromise, the integrity of supervisory authority or the chain of command.
(2) Cause actual or perceived partiality or unfairness.
(3) Involve, or appear to involve, the improper use of rank or position for personal gain.
(4) Are, or are perceived to be, exploitative or coercive in nature.
(5) Create an actual or clearly predictable adverse impact on discipline, authority, morale, or the ability of the
command to accomplish its mission.
c. Certain types of personal relationships between officers and enlisted personnel are prohibited. Prohibited relationships
include—
(1) Ongoing business relationships between officers and enlisted personnel. This prohibition does not apply to
landlord/tenant relationships or to one-time transactions such as the sale of an automobile or house, but does apply to
borrowing or lending money, commercial solicitation, and any other type of on-going financial or business relationship.
Business relationships which exist at the time this policy becomes effective, and that were authorized under previously
existing rules and regulations, are exempt until March 1, 2000. In the case of Army National Guard or United States
Army Reserve personnel, this prohibition does not apply to relationships that exist due to their civilian occupation or
employment.
(2) Dating, shared living accommodations other than those directed by operational requirements, and intimate or
sexual relationships between officers and enlisted personnel. This prohibition does not apply to—
(a) Marriages. When evidence of fraternization between an officer and enlisted member prior to their marriage
exists, their marriage does not preclude appropriate command action based on the prior fraternization. Commanders
have a wide range of responses available including counseling, reprimand, order to cease, reassignment, administrative
action or adverse action. Commanders must carefully consider all of the facts and circumstances in reaching a
disposition that is appropriate. Generally, the commander should take the minimum action necessary to ensure that the
needs of good order and discipline are satisfied.
(b) Situations in which a relationship that complies with this policy would move into non-compliance due to a
change in status of one of the members (for instance, a case where two enlisted members are dating and one is
subsequently commissioned or selected as a warrant officer). In relationships where one of the enlisted members has
entered into a program intended to result in a change in their status from enlisted to officer, the couple must terminate
the relationship permanently or marry within either one year of the actual start date of the program, before the change
in status occurs, or within one year of the publication date of this regulation, whichever occurs later.
(c) Personal relationships between members of the National Guard or Army Reserve, when the relationship primarily
exists due to civilian acquaintanceships, unless the individuals are on active duty (other than annual training), on
full-time National Guard duty (other than annual training), or serving as a dual status military technician.
(d) Personal relationships between members of the Regular Army and members of the National Guard or Army
Reserve when the relationship primarily exists due to civilian association and the Reserve component member is not on
active duty (other than annual training), on full-time National Guard duty (other than annual training), or serving as a
dual status military technician.
(e) Prohibited relationships involving dual status military technicians, which were not prohibited under previously
existing rules and regulations, are exempt until one year of publication date of this regulation.
(f) Soldiers and leaders share responsibility, however, for ensuring that these relationships do not interfere with good
order and discipline. Commanders will ensure that personal relationships that exist between Soldiers of different ranks
emanating from their civilian careers will not influence training, readiness, or personnel actions.
(3) Gambling between officers and enlisted personnel.
d. These prohibitions are not intended to preclude normal team building associations that occur in the context of
activities such as community organizations, religious activities, family gatherings, unit-based social functions, or
athletic teams or events.
e. All military personnel share the responsibility for maintaining professional relationships. However, in any
relationship between Soldiers of different grade or rank, the senior member is generally in the best position to
terminate or limit the extent of the relationship. Nevertheless, all members may be held accountable for relationships
that violate this policy.
f. Commanders should seek to prevent inappropriate or unprofessional relationships through proper training and
leadership by example. Should inappropriate relationships occur, commanders have available a wide range of responses.
These responses may include counseling, reprimand, order to cease, reassignment, or adverse action. Potential
adverse action may include official reprimand, adverse evaluation report(s), nonjudicial punishment, separation, bar to
AR 600–20 • 7 June 2006 25
reenlistment, promotion denial, demotion, and courts martial. Commanders must carefully consider all of the facts and
circumstances in reaching a disposition that is warranted, appropriate, and fair.
4–15. Other prohibited relationships
a. Trainee and Soldier relationships. Any relationship between permanent party personnel and initial entry training
(IET) trainees not required by the training mission is prohibited. This prohibition applies to permanent party personnel
without regard to the installation of assignment of the permanent party member or the trainee.
b. Recruiter and recruit relationships. Any relationship between permanent party personnel assigned or attached to
the United States Army Recruiting Command and potential prospects, applicants, members of the Delayed Entry
Program (DEP), or members of the Delayed Training Program (DTP) not required by the recruiting mission is
prohibited. This prohibition applies to United States Army Recruiting Command Personnel without regard to the unit of
assignment of the permanent party member and the potential prospects, applicants, DEP members, or DTP members.
c. Training commands. Training commands (for example, TRADOC and AMEDDC) and the United States Army
Recruiting Command are authorized to publish supplemental regulations to paragraph 4–15, which further detail
proscribed conduct within their respective commands.
4–16. Fraternization
Violations of paragraphs 4–14b, 4–14c, and 4–15 may be punished under Article 92, UCMJ, as a violation of a lawful
general regulation.

Answer 2

NO, it is not OK. Try not to mess up, if you are indeed a newly commissioned officer, in the first year. Dating enlisted women will get you in trouble. Remember one thing in the military. Bill Clinton and countless others have forgotten this rule and have rued the day. "Never sleep with anyone with less to lose than you do." Dating enlisted women definitely violate this rule!

P.S. Enlisted women are not younger and hotter. I think you need a touchup on the "officer and a gentleman" thing you have signed up for!

Answer 3

Is fraternizing the same as socializing? And is socializing the same as dating? And why can an E9 date an E2 and an O5 date an O3. In both cases I could see an abuse of power. At one time fraternizing meant socializing and the issue of dating was not addressed because at the time that the rules were written it was a man's military. Now I stand corrected if the regs have been modified to specifically address the issure of dating between officers and enlisteds was. Hell, I see fraternization going on all the time. One time my father (E7) had to drop some papers off at his CO's house. The CO was having a party and following the rules of protocol my father knocked on the back door and was allowed entrance into the kitchen away from the party. When his CO arrived in the kitchen he said, "Bob, you don't have to come to the back door, when you come to my house." To which my father replied, Sir I was following military protocol. The CO informed my father than in his home he did not have to address him as sir or Col so and so but by his first name, he did not have to go to the back door and he proceeded to invite my father to join the party and have a drink, while my father was in his NCO dress blues. So much for fraternizing.

Answer 4

No it is considered fraternization and is cause for Court Martial and discharge from service. It is also not legal for a senior enlisted to date a junior enlisted; a Staff NCO can be charged with the same thing for dating a lower rank, usual "rule" when I was in was more then two grades different if they were not under your charge; I think the same was said of Officers. I have seen three SNCO's given either Non-Judicial Punishment or Court Martialed for this when I was in. A simple rule for you to follow is that if you are in a position of authority over them then you should not date them or more then two grades different if not; some commands look at it a little different and say one rank so you should check before you do it. In the case of Officers and enlisted it is a very simple No.
Socializing is very different then dating; I worked for a Colonel who once a month would have a social function for the entire group (Private and up); it was voluntary and no rank was used, just first names were the guidelines and he used it to find out what everyone thought and how they were; outside of that setting it was Yes Sir and No Sir. Nothing said there was ever used for or against anyone in the two years i served under him and from talking to other SNCO's he had done the same thing for years and always kept it off th record.
If you aren't mature enough to uderstand the difference in socializing and dating then you should not be in a position of authority. Personally I had troops at my house for special occassions and parties and at those times it was informal but I made sure they understood that outside of those occassions it was Gunny and military protocol was to be followed; I found out lots of information about my troops that way and found ways to do things diffferently and better at times-they also found out my quirks and it made for a smoother, more efficient operation.

Answer 5

Depending on which branch of the military views will vary. Since we are talking Army, there is a bit more tolerance than the Navy or Marine Corps. We are also talking National Guard (aka militia) versus regular Army. When he is not activated, I would expect NO stigma or problems with either career. I see two major problems. 1. When she is deployed outside the United States, he may not be able to join her until his active commitment is finished. Being National Guard means he will be assigned to a unit within the United States. 2. Ignoring the questionable constitutional authority of ability to mobilize National Guard units for use outside the United States except in a declared war, if his unit is sent outside the United States it will be into a war zone. Depending on his military occupational specialty (MOS), he may or may not be assigned support. If it is not support, she cannot join him. Military marriages work best, from what I saw, when at least one of the parties is in a very non specialized field like cook, vehicle mechanic, or clerk. That allows the person to almost always be able to find a posting near or on the same installation as their spouse. When both parties are in specialized fields even if the same specialty this becomes more difficult. One the availability of slots for two people on the same installation may not exist. Two when multiple slots exist they are often in the same unit and often in the same OFFICE. This is seen as a source of conflict even when both individuals are enlisted or both are officer and they are peers not a superior/subordinate relationship. With one party an officer and the other enlisted this would not be allowed and may force assignments to multiple installations, possibly multiple theaters.

Answer 6

no way. I was a legal clerk in the Marine Corps for 4 years and saw officers try it - even Staff NCO's try to date lcpl's and they got burned every time. If you do it and get caught, expect an involuntary separation at the least - or even court martial as it is a violation of the UCMJ under 'conduct unbecoming....' and 'fraternization' (the catch all - article 134). But, maybe its worth it to you. I know a ssgt that dated a marine and got adsepped, but they got married and he started his life over. good luck. that's a tough spot.

Answer 7

Only if you're willing to end your career on a bad note.

My sister was in the Army and as a PFC, she began dating an E-5 (Sgt.) and was drummed out of the service, with a demotion. It's been on her permanent record ever since.

I'm sure in your situation it would be a heck of a lot worse for you since you are an officer.

Answer 8

No, it is a total violation of the UCMJ. Also, no newly commissioned officer would ask a question like that. So when you grow you can try to get a commission, however that maybe difficult with a felony conviction of impersonating an officer.

Answer 9

As an officer you are prohibited from socializing with enlisted males and females this includes dating the hotties.

Answer 10

The charge would be fraternizing sir, don't they teach the UCMJ in OCS anymore? Besides that, sir, you have no " Women" in the millitary, they are soldiers under your command, or have they stopped teaching that as well, sir.

BTW, impersonating an office in the armed forces is a fedral offence, you lying ***

Answer 11

I believe that it's one of the military rules that cannot be violated.

As a military officer u must be set an example to your followers and it's your responsibility to uphold that rules.

So the choice is yours!

Choose the best that can please your heart for good.