If I create my own island & declare "rape" to be legal, who has the authority to step in & say "that's wrong"?

Question

I attended a Christian discussion group last night and they continually argued that without a "moral authority" (i.e. God), there's no standard for "right" or "wrong", and on this personal island where I make my own rules, no one could tell me that "rape" is "wrong".

Regardless of how I responded, I'd like to know how everyone else might retort.

So... who gets to tell me that I can't decide something is "right" on my little island if there's no divine arbitrator? And WHY do they have the authority to step in and declare what I'm doing to be "wrong"?

P.S. Please... don't lecture me on what a horrible person I must be. I'm playing Devil's advocate here... I'm not actually asserting my own views on rape.

Answer 1

Everybody has that authority.

Hurting another person is wrong. People don't need an external "moral authority" to know that. That's a congenital knowledge and part of being human.

PS I'm a Christian, but I sure don't agree with that discussion group's hypothesis.

Answer 2

Morality is not something that is biologically built into us. It is learned. Believing in god does not make you a moral person. The belief in God (moral authority lol) has lead to the death of many, many people. Bringing up a recent (historically speaking) event, the Burning Times. Many innocent women were burned or hanged because they were believed to be Witches. Where is the morality in that?

As I said.. Morals are not build into the human brain. They are taught, and they are learned. For instance. Humans are naturally "greedy". That is, unless taught otherwise, children will steal what they want. Food, toys, what ever they want. You also have to teach children that it is wrong to lie, because other wise, they will do it to save their own hides and not get in trouble.

If you created a civilization where rape was OK, then after two of three generations there wouldn't be such a thing as rape, because the concept would be dead. It would just be having sex when you wanted, with who you wanted.

Morality is not some god given thing. It is something that People must teach other People.

Answer 3

People rape others where there is law and order. Why would this be any different on an island? Regardless of what is right or wrong, rape happens. That's just the way it is. Of course it is wrong no matter where you are, that just makes sense. No one is better than any other. Most women would prefer to die than to be raped. However if rape is an accepted standard on a deserted island, while it is wrong, if one on an island with no others around says that it is ok, then to them it would be, regardless of the facts. I don't know if that makes sense as it is off the top of my head, but I call 'em as I see 'em.
Blessed Be

Answer 4

Right and wrong is a totally social phenomenon and there are no absolutes. As such "right" and "wrong" can not exist without an individual being part of a larger society with a body of accepted morals and ethics. (Ironically, those who claim that "right" and "wrong" are absolutes use them to justify generally reprehensible sh*t like evangelism, genocide and colonialism)

So to answer your question... the case of rape poses an interesting conundrum (unless you are raping an inanimate object) because you've got to wonder if two people on an island comprise a "society" and if that collective society considers that "right". Also you've got to wonder what society these people came from and which preconceived standards of r/w they might already have.

If you could find people who were blank slates morally; I suppose the guy would consider rape a lot more "right" than the girl. Although extreme it is not inconceivable that she could considered it right as well.. this is not that uncommon in the sex crime literature. (i use crime with caution as it reflects what we here in the US consider as r/w).

On a parting note... there are places and cultures around the world where forced sex is not considered wrong... it may be interesting to think more about that and learn more about how they have come to that conclusion.

One day I'm going to:
1) buy an island from a small country with a cr*p military
2) Buy a few old destroyers and tanks off of http://www.firearmnews.com/directory/index.asp?CatID=108
3) Declare independence

Answer 5

God gives the rulers of the lands the ability to come up with it's own laws, But it doesn't mean there always right. And so if you are creating your own little island, did you also create the space that it occupies? And if so did you also create the areas around it. Then you must haved created the universe that this island is in. Wow lucky you. If so then you must be God and you can set yur own rules. Assuming you found this empty island. How did it get there? There must haved been a creator. If so then God gets the authority. Just because you own it and make the rules doesn't mean it's right. as I already said.
What a great discussion

Answer 6

What you are talking about is transendent rights. If Man is the source of rights, then whatever teh particular social group deems to be correct will be "right" and there thus cannot be such a thing as "evil". This is the heart of the problem that created the Holocust.

However, if certain rights are transcendent, if they come from a higher moral authority than Man, or as Jefferson said "endowed by their Creator with unalienable rights", then there is an objective moral standard that a society can be held to.

In sum, if you hold the position that there are no transendent rights and no higher power to answer to, then you would be correct in your position that you could make rape legal. Many societies even today do. However, if there are transendent rights, then you woudl be held accountable if not in this life then in the next.

Answer 7

I would have retorted to that argument as follows.

As an atheist I don't believe in any Gods or any pay back of any of my wrongs in this life and I still know the difference between right and wrong. My own sense of humanness tells me how to treat another person and even if I were on the furthest away dessert island where my word were law I still would not make rape legal as I know it's wrong as I would not want it to be done to me. Believing in God does not give any one morally superiority it just makes them want rewards for doing what none believers do out of genuine respect for another human beings feelings and value. So there would be someone to tell me rape was wrong and that would be me!

Edit
I've just thought of something that I find worrying about the claim that the Christian made that if you were on a island with out God there would be nothing stopping you making rape legal. If a Christian said that to me I would ask them is the believe in God is the only thing stopping them from raping someone? If that is the case then they must thinking of raping someone to claim they only don't do it as they know God would see it as wrong! Yuck! Thank God for atheism I say!

Answer 8

There are 2 issues here: 1) is it possible to know right from wrong without religion; and 2) who can challenge your authority on your own personal island.

First, it's a simple matter to know right from wrong if your not some kind of freaking serial killer or religious fanatic. All it takes is empathy: the ability to feel another person's feelings. Rape is wrong simply because it is a violent act that you would never want done to yourself. This is common sense thinking.

Second, just because you make the rules on your private island doesn't make you right. So who gets to tell you that you are wrong for declaring rape to be legal on your private island? Everybody, that's who! Where do they get the authority? From common sense thinking where no one would want to be the victim of a violent act.

This is not rocket science. The law is not just a set of rules that are arbitrarily written and they are not merely a parroting of the 10 Commandments. Laws are enacted so that we can live in an orderly society, where people can live in a desireable community, raise families, conduct business and prosper. If you make rape legal, then you can expect social chaos and a total breakdown of the community. Husbands, fathers and sons would be spending all of their time seeking revenge for the victimization of their wives, daughters and mothers. Blood would flow like a river.

Use your melons for something other than growing hair for Pete's sake.

Answer 9

Jesus counselled his disciple's mostly to love one another as they had loved him, which is perfectly fair. The truth and given wisdom of Jesus is the truth of all scripturs without exemption. The Sprit of the Christ lives on in the hearts of those who love him, overcome your anger, and I do not doubt you have much to be angry about, as do I, and Listen to the thoughts and experiences of they who have love and worship the great diety and his teachings. Atheism is a nonsense. I have a great deal of respect for truth seekers but the ranters make very little coherent sense. You are a formidably intelligent contributor, without doubt, and a hugely respected one, and I feel it does a disservice to your cause to continue this incessant tirade against the faithful. You will cite freedom of speech and the right to voice any opinions you choose to do so. It is precisly this dogma that hinders progress and impedes enlightenment and th ePeace the world so urgently is in need of. Speaking purely for the sake of rhetoric rather than to direct or change the world for the better. I do not recall Jesus ever saying, ''You dont get it, '' The faithful, I presume speak on precisely the same authority and premise that the atheists do. An angry childish see saw of futile finger pointing and groundless accusations. Peace. Be So Loved.

Answer 10

It makes sense to me... the only people who could tell you it's wrong would be anybody who had the authority over your little island to make that decision. If it were You, then YOU get to decide if it's right or wrong. If it were some other entity, then that entity would decide. If you were completely on your own and answered to nobody, then you could easily make that legality and it would hold. However, to the Christian, God is the ultimate authority and would therefore be in charge of the island so the rules would be created in line with His wishes - which is LOVE.

By the way - there are lots of places/cultures that do things that we (Americans and/or Christians) think are WRONG but to them it is OK (genital mutilation for example). And I'm SURE there are lots of things WE do that they would think is WRONG (like circumcision). Anyway, in the end I think we all try our best whether Christian or not!

Be blessed.

Answer 11

I won't lecture you since I have a feeling you abhor rapists as well; you do, don't you?!

Anyway....

That Christian discussion group has just proved to even more how stuffed up I think most christians are ( mainly the deranged american kind ).

The Human Rights group, Battered Women's group ( forgot the official name ), Amnesty International etc would most likely come after you and maybe some people ( including moi ) with bombs to blow you and your island up, but not before getting the innocent people off the island beforehand.