How is it not possible that the flood is not God's fault?

Question

He created us, he knows everything, he knew what we would do, he created us anyways. To say he didn't do everything premeditated takes away from his power. Why is that so hard to accept? It is not a false presumption, it is the definition of omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence. If god is not all of these, he is not god, just a bumbling tyrant.

Did I use a double negative?

Primoa, god created us knowing we would sin, comprendes?

I know Phoenix, I'm just trying to sew seeds of doubt.

Guy With Questions : If you read this site, you'll see hundreds if not thousands of times a day people claiming it is our own fault.

common_sense_do: How can god possibly be considered loving then, if we exercise that free will in any way other than how god wants, according to christian religion, if you don't worship him the exact way he wants you burn forever. That seems more diabolical and sadistic.

JJ: If he didn't know we would sin, then he's not very powerful.

sharen d: He doesn't give up on us? That is an outright lie. If he never gave up on us, revelations would never happen, the flood would have never happened, soddom and gammorah would never have happened, we wouldn't die, adam and eve wouldn't have been kicked out of the garden. God wouldn't have turned his back on the israelites time and time again. It seems to me god rather enjoys giving up on us.

Jon M: Your definition of god is a very limited one. I think we could take that god if he tried to bring about the apocalypse.

Babs: How can a perfect god create junk? Seems like a flaw to me.

DH: I agree, any idea of a god is wrong.

CK loves Chimichanga…: I'm not trying to blame god for anything, not my actions certainly. I question the goodness of a deity that gives free will and then punishes eternally behavior that he doesn't like. You assume we can't live moral lives if we aren't "living for god." How about those that never hear of god, yet are quite able to lead a good life, love everyone, basically follow jesus' commandments without ever hearing them. Do you think human beings are incapable of doing good without your jesus or god?

lickorboy: I know, I'm procrastinating on a paper, lol.

Answer 1

I'm sorry...have folks been trying to say God had no hand n the flood?

I don't think so...what I do believe they've been saying is man has the choice to obey or disobey...(not a lot of grey area between the two is there), and that if he chooses to disobey, then he should also know there are consequences.

As for the response that we're constantly trying to shift the blame away from God....let's try it this way....I'm a banker of unbelievable wealth and I can give from this wealth to whomever has demonstrated themselves to be trustworthy.

however, along comes a man who says "aww to heck with your rules, I want the money" and he takes it. Now he's no longer a member of the community, he's simply a bank robber.

what I find funny in all these discussions, is how we keep blaming the Banker for allowing the bankrobber to be punished, and then we indict the Banker as if he is the criminal who takes away the freedom of the bankrobber sitting in prison.

Talk about shifting blame. And isn't this what this whole question really is? but a shift from blaming a world that rejected God, to now blaming God!

Answer 2

Yes He created us and yes He knows us: that means He knew those people were capable of better behavior. What about Noah? How come he could behave righteously if, by your argument, he wasn't capable of behaving any better than the other people of his time, because God created him that way?

He's the Creator; you're the created. If you write a story and later think it's junk, you'll delete it. Same with drawing a picture or molding clay. Would someone be justified in calling you a bumbling tyrant simply because your creation didn't meet your standards, wasn't to your liking, had no value?

Judging and condemning God is empirical nonsense.

Re: Additional Details comment:
He didn't create junk. He created human beings with free will and He will not take that from us.

For those who say the flood never happened, what about the remnants of the arc that were discovered on Mt. Ararat in Northern Turkey?

Answer 3

Who says that its not "Gods fault"? If what you mean by "fault" is responsibility? God is definitely responsible for the flood, and
its one of the things God did that we are extremely thankful for, so your question is
perplexing at best.
God sent the flood to rid the location of the influx of the hybrids that were being born
of the unions between Angelic beings and human women.
You can read of those Angels in the only Chapter of the Book of Jude. I have no idea where your confusion is, perhaps you would like to explain further?
God wiped them the hell out - the ungodly
ones at the end of this age just before His
return will also be wiped out. Any question?

Answer 4

It doesn't take away from God's power.

The real Living God doesn't need human ideas about predestination and foreknowledge. The only god that needs that is the science-fiction god fundamentalists worship, who can see a future that exists only in people's minds.

Why is that so hard to accept? It is a false presumption. It is not the definition of omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence. God is indeed omnipotent, and His power is over reality -- not over things that don't exist such as our imaginings of the future. God is omniscient, but how can He know things that aren't there, like the imaginary future? God is omnipresent, but the future is not a "place" where things are waiting to happen.

God is no bumbling tyrant. He is alive and radient. But He has no need to conform to an Isaac Asimov view of time and creation.

Answer 5

God never gives up on us.No one knows why God does things .Sin was the biggest reason.Those people had many chances to avoid the flood.I am willing to believe Noah told them what God's plan was.They chose to not listen so goes the consequences.These people could have joined in the ark by living for the Lord to begin with.It must have been pretty wicked for God to chose to bring on judgement.

Answer 6

God gave us all the wonderful gift of free will.

The problem with free will is that many people don't want to accept the consequences of their own words and acts. They prefer to have someone else to blame when things aren't so peachy.

But, it doesn't work that way. Do, say and act however you wish. And, be willing to accept responsibility for your actions.

I believe that this says a great deal about God's power. As well as His love and mercy for us. He lets us do whatever we want and keeps telling us that the path back to Him remains clear and open. We just have to choose to walk that path.

Answer 7

im going to restate my answer....He DID know we would sin, and which is why bhe told adam and eve not to eat the apple. He tried to keep people in remembering him
he made the flood because the world had fallen and so He gave them a chance to get in the boat and float away....if He wanted to He couldnt have, but noah tried to get people in....and when the flood came, they died. "never bite the hand who feeds you"...so now its more like "never bite the hand that created you".
we cant understand exactly why he did it, since we are not Him, and thats like saying you know all the Galaxy...truth is, you dont know anything!

Answer 8

Once again, we have here yet another person who wants to be able to do whatever they want and then wants to blame God for the consequences of their choices because God knew ahead of time what the person would do after all, and did nothing to prevent it.....

Okay, sometimes we parents know full-well that our kid is going to misbehave after we have repeatedly warned them what could happen if they misbehave. It gets to the point where we know our child could get hurt, but we have to allow that to happen because the only way our kid is going to "get it" is if we allow them to pay the consequence of their actions because they are CERTAINLY not going to listen to US, who happen to know more about life than they do.

Same applies to God, the Heavenly "parent" to each of us. God doesn't just randomly decide to punish us when He knows what we will do. He gives us plenty of chances to avoid our fate, yet we stubbornly refuse to listen to Him and prefer to go about things our own way, knowing full well there are consequences for our actions. Then we have the audacity to blame God for not preventing the consequences of the actions that WE insisted on doing.

Which do you want? Do you want to have the freedom to live your life as you please WITHOUT God telling you what to do and forcing you to do the right thing? If so, then don't complain if God allows you to reap the consequences of your behavior when He has made the consequences of your actions known to you ahead of time. If you want the freedom to make your own choices, then DON'T blame God for the consequences of the choices that YOU make.

If you want to avoid being hurt in this life and want God to spare you from all unpleasant things, then you have to be willing to turn over your free will to God and give up your right to make your own choices. If you want God to stop bad things from happening, then you have to allow God to have total control over you, because as soon as you have any control, then you are choosing to do things which come with a consequence, good or bad, and it is NOT God's fault that you chose something a certain way.

Take it or leave it. You can't have it both ways. If you want free will, then quit your griping when you face the consequences of your actions. If you want to live a sterile and trouble-free life, then you had better be willing to turn your life over completely to God and do everything He asks of you, because the only way to avoid trouble in this life, is to trust God completely to have control over your life. We humans just can't do that, and God knows this and KNEW IT AHEAD OF TIME - that's why He gave us free will, why He tells us the consequences ahead of time, then allows us to face those consequences when we do stupid things.

So enough of this calling God a bumbling tyrant. If anyone is a bumbling anything around here, it certainly is not God!!

Answer 9

The Army Corps of Engineers and the Orleans Levee Board have taken responsibility for building us crappy levees here in New Orleans. God had nothing to do with it, unless He is working for the Corps or the Levee Board.

Answer 10

This is always a hard question, it always, I feel challenge our understanding of how it all fits together. I`m going to make reference to `Gnostic Gospels` again. These gospels were hidden way way back and only rediscovered in the early60`s I think. They put a different slant on things altogether and challenge our understanding and the way we interpret the Bible. If we start with creation, Adam and eve were, we are told created in gods image. From this we have come think of them in terms of man and woman as we understand them today. We and only us, literally transated their `nakedness` and the `fig leaves` into our understanding. In fact they were, I believe, in the form of energy made from matter (I believe this to be the image of god). After eating from the tree of knowledge (this is important as the word gnostic, means the self.) they both gained knowledge of them selves and through self knowledge noticed their nakedness and coveered themselves, the fig leaf refering to the skin that our energy now resides. He certainly has a good idea of what we have, are or will do there is no doubt. His love for us is unconditional (although some organised religions may dispute this) like a parents for their children, so no matter what we do there\ will always be forgiveness. This brings us to the seat of faith, he allows us to make our own mistakes, why? I hear you ask, well we learn from making mistakes, not just about not doing that one again but, more importantly about our selfs (GNOSTIC). We may ask why is there war or famine, well if we had nothing to compare with we wouldn`t knowwhat peace felt like or when we achieved it. The Gnostic Gospels make refernce to God as being many things at once,male and female, wisdom and thought......... and so on. It does also refer to a part of all this as being boastful but that is only part it. Some poems may be useful,

At a time before there was absolute nothing. As part
of the baron, formless and empty darkness.
I was witness when the essence of something decended
into the emptiness and gave birth to that that was to
become nothing.



THE BIRTH OF SOUL

As the form of nothing hung within the darkness, I saw
the coming of a shimmering light, that transformed
nothing into something. With in this light was a
form,that became known to me as Logos,lugh and that
that was to become Merlin. As it spoke, the echo of of
something shuddered across the the empty form of
nothing and behold from that echo decended all that
that was to be evrything.

As part of everything I came to know,truth and mind, I
heard wisdom and thought, I felt light and being. To
me had been given the secret of all that was nothing.
As such, I then became the poet of they that are
everything. And this I will always be.


SOULS JOURNEY

At a time when there was absolute nothing,
As the poet of they that are evrything, I was then of
they who are also nothing therefor I am.

When he that was nothing bid "Let there be", then by
the side of she who is nothing I became many things.
As nothing I was there in existence of something, When
those who consumed everything were cast into the
realms of never.

I was there in heavens sweet gardens when
the son of man,Who were also once of nothing
ate from the forbidden friut and became something that
can never again be anything

On that other sweet shore, I bore witness when
the sons of he who is everything married the daughters
of man. They that can never be anything.

I saw the daughters of man give birth to those
heros of old. Heros of renown who are everything yet
long to be nothing. Heros such as
Setanta,Ferdia, Queen Maeve and Morrigan the raven,
who in war is all things so that man can never be
anything.

These are the heros that will always br something, yet
battle endlessly to remain nothing and there for save
everything.

THE DEEDS OF THE SOUL

After the time of absolute nothing, as part of all
that which is something and the poet to that which
will for ever be, I also am witness to the secrets
ofof everything.All that which is seen but not
percieved, that which is heard but not understood by
those that are destined never to be anything.

At a time when the universe dripped in the darkness of
the blood sacrifice,she that is the child logos,he
that is lugh the warrior and they thatare the light
that led merlin which is within us all, guided me with
thunderous illumination and bid me to note all that
indeed is known to everything.

Within the light a shimmering waterfall spoke these
words "I am the thought that resides within the light,
she that existed before all" This voice came tome not
with words but a presence I could only feel "I am he
that moves within every creature, we are they that are
the invisible ones that dwell within all and moves in
every creature.I am the voice that cries out in
everything,he that is perception and knowledge, she
that is the seed that dwells within everything, they
that reveals themselves in the thoughts of all, we are
all that is within.
Rab
So to sum up then:when God said he created man kind in his/their image what he truly ment that we also hold the key to wisdom and knowledge, truth and understanding,........