Who are happier, feminists or non-feminists?

Question

Feminist or non-feminist *women*, that is. And why do you think so?

By happiness, I mean: enjoying or characterized by well-being and contentment (Webster's)

daisylily – I have to say, respectfully, that your view of non-feminists is completely inaccurate and frankly offensive. In my family, personal, and professional circle, I associate with hundreds of non-feminist women, many who are professionals, own and run businesses (some of them very wealthy) and none of whom remotely resemble your description.

These NON-feminist women have self-respect, are respected by others, some have families, many do work outside the home (including owning businesses) if and when necessary or desirable, do not feel inferior to men (nor do their husbands think so), would not *enter* an abusive relationship (so, they don’t need to worry about getting out of one), and know they can make their own choices in life.

If you have never met any non-feminist women like this I would suggest you widen your circle of friends.

daisylily - No, they are NOT feminists.

The definition of feminism is very clear and concise, and it is not mine.

(from Webster's).

1 : the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes.

Therefore, feminism requires that, without exception, women must be treated the same as men (equally) socially, politically, and economically.

Therefore, a real feminist would not ever accept being treated differently (not equal) than a man would in any situation.

However, my women friends don't always want to be treated “just like a man.” There are some situations where they prefer to be treated differently, but still respectfully. Sorry, they’re definitely not feminists.

daisylily - thanks for asking.

We do the door opening thing happily, no big deal, no drama. We're happy to defer and they like it.

Another: if we go out to a restaurant, for example during bad weather, we (the guys) would be the ones to drop the ladies off and get wet rather than vice-versa - regardless of what we're wearing. Neither they or we would melt, just a nice thing to do that we have no problem with and they appreciate

That's a couple of examples. There are other scenarios like that, as you can imagine.

EDIT – Ms. Rainbow

Isn’t that what this section is primarily focused on? And my folks don’t just *assert* that they aren’t feminists; they aren't.

IF “Feminism is not about being treated ABSOLUTELY equal in EVERY instance”, who gets to decide when exceptions are to be made?

How can you have a standard that applies inconsistently?

Feminism is supposed (by definition) to require equality socially, economically, and politically. What are the situations where equality should not be applied, according to this?

Should exceptions be made to equality for convenience-sake or based on personal preference?

Hint: that’s what the rest of us do. When we don’t want to treat women equally (and they don’t want to be), we don’t. But, that works since we are not bound by equality.

As you noted, based on decades past, women in '07 have the opportunity to do whatever they want, and feminism is not required to meet their goals.

waswisgirl1 -

The definition is not mine, it is from the dictionary (Webster's). Don't you like it?

Secondly, "flexible" (as opposed to rigid) definitions are seldom useful. So, I'll stick with the ones that mean the same thing all the time. You seem to have conveniently coined a new term "imperfect feminist".

Lastly, my friends and family are not *any* kind of feminists. And if they were to be, they would be the kind that sticks to their principles *all the time*, not the kind that drops them when they become inconvenient - as seems to be true of many, if not most feminists.

Answer 1

Feminists are angrier.
Feminists are meaner.
Feminists hate men.

Feminists are definitely happier.

Answer 2

I think non feminists. Feminists are in a state of constant battle for equal rights they are constantly needing to be fueled and get angry over things. Where as non feminists just appreciate the things the feminists have done for us and are happy with the way most things are.

Edit #1 I think this is a great question. I'm sorry you're getting so beat up over it.
I think the women who are beating you up over it are really unhappy- I hope that whatever take they have is counted as on the unhappy side.

Answer 3

As a traditional feminist (or by today's standards a "non-feminist") I would hands down say that "non-feminist" women are happier and more at peace with our lives. We don't need to shout and name call to get our point heard. We're respected because we respect others. We recognize and are proud that we are created differently then men. We also know that we are to have our dignity respected at the same level as a man's dignity because we are all humans. Equal dignity does not equate equal ability (or sameness).

I personally don't have an agenda to demean men. Heck, I'll even laugh at a good joke about men or women (if it's within good taste). A woman should know how to do some of the traditional "man" things (like change a flat tire) but it is quite okay to embrace our differences. Being a mother (as I am) is the greatest and most important calling/vocation. I wouldn't trade it for all the power a man could have.

Also non-feminist women don't have as much of a desire to control everything around them. Those who try to control everything (and everyone) tend to be the most miserable because they don't have any control of their own lives.

Answer 4

For the purpose of qualification, I am a non-feminist female. Please note - that is NON, not ANTI...

As a broad answer, I don't honestly think that either one would determine their happiness by this particular standard. I do, however, recognize that any group who sees the world as being a negative place (the extremists) would have a more difficult time finding happiness in that world.

Conversely, I will also add that people who are involved in causes may get a great sense of satisfaction - and therefore - happiness out of their involvement.

I don't mean to be a fence sitter, but I don't think its a cut and dried answer. For myself, I will say that I am an incredibly happy person. I have never experienced a glass ceiling - nor did I ever go looking for one. I recognize inequality from time to time, but I have also seen great opportunities that have arisen directly linked to my gender....so I would be horribly hypocritical to criticize the former and ignore the latter.

Answer 5

I didn't find the first statement to be true when I was dating men. They usually liked it that I didn't assume or expect that they had to pay for anything or everything on dates. In spite of how I act here, when I was dating, I would never make a scene, unless someone was screaming at me or something (which never happened). I was always happy to pay all, half or none of the date expenses. I would like to pay half, so it was clear that I was there to get to know the person, not spend money, but if they pushed it, I always said, ok, but I get to buy the next time. And I would. Since I dated women in the past as well, I was use to paying half, or more, since I often based what you each paid for in a date on how much you made, so one person wasn't burdened down with debt. If it was a big deal, I'd just suggest free events, so I didn't embarrass my date. So when I started dating men a couple of years ago, it was a big shock to find out how important it was for many men to pay for everything (I'm 49 and was dating guys in their 40's). I didn't feel comfortable, but I realized they were a lot more traditional than I was. If they were flexible, they bent a bit and let me pay for more and more until it was more fair. Especially if I knew the guy made a lot less than I did, I would suggest free/low-cost events, if they felt uncomfortable with me paying a lot. If they were totally inflexible, I didn't date them again.

Answer 6

I think your rigid definition of feminism is a way for you to say that no one is a "real" feminist, since no one can be a "perfect" feminist. What human being can be perfect? We can try our best. Just how many people would be considered 100% a socialist, or vegetarian, or anti-racist, or a democrat or republican?

Your friends sound happy, and they sound like imperfect feminists, just like many of us who choose to label ourselves feminists. So I'll go with, feminists and those who act like feminists are most likely happier, since most of the things feminists do make people happy, both men and women.

Answer 7

Ultimately, the difference between a feminist and your average self-respecting woman is that a feminist wants to be part of political debate, whereas non-feminists choose to deal with their male-female relation issues privately. Whether a woman is a feminist or not, she wants some measure of equality and mutual respect with the people around her. I would like to think so, anyway, I have no reason to think of non-feminists as any less deserving or able to speak up for themselves than I am.

So then the question becomes, why do some people become political activists while others prefer to say "I'm not really into politics" and try to make the best lives they can for their families? I'm not sure. Supporters will describe it as a "call to public service," opponents will call it "egocentrism and hunger for power."

Political activists get their sense of worth from representing women in the public sphere. Non-feminists get their sense of worth from making the best of a smaller but no less important world (family is the backbone of everything). And it's not like feminists don't have home lives that they also attend to in a very dedicated way, just as there are non-feminists who do take on other kinds of public roles. I just think it's impossible to generalize who is happier--what brings them each happiness is too different.

Answer 8

I am pregnant with my first child, and nothing in the world has ever made me feel happier. That, along with my marriage of 4 years has brought me the most happiness in my life. More happiness than graduating from college, more happiness than landing a good job, more happiness than making more money than my husband, more happiness than any award I have received. I think that anyone who has been in a healthy marriage or had the opportunity to have children would agree with me that it brings more happiness than anything else in life. So, I would conclude that non-feminists are the happiest because feminists are chasing happiness in the wrong places.

Answer 9

Hmmmmmmm. I don't really know. I've always been somewhat of a feminist, but have only really taken the initiative to actively learn more about it within the last two or three years. I'm happier now than I was then. I'm smarter now than I was then. As Jessica Valenti described on Stephen Colbert, "feminism is self-help times 100" and I think she's right.

With that said, maybe my situation is different than other women's. Can you really get happiness based on your politics? Maybe some can, but I'm sure there are plenty of happy right-wingers and plenty of happy people who don't identify with, or care about, politics whatsoever.

BTW, none of my friends identify as feminists (they're certainly not anti, but they're just not into it), and I agree with you - they're not weak little things with crappy jobs and abusive boyfriends.

Answer 10

I enjoy being a woman. I like it when men open doors for me, pull out my chair, help me with my coat, etc. I think feminism has done us a little harm, with very little to show for it. I know this is probably not a popular view. But when I act like a lady, I should be treated as one.
Peace

Answer 11

If you're going to quote Webster, then it's important to remember that feminists are defined as people who believe that women and men should be treated equally.

By this definition, I would say that feminists are happier.

Feminists tend to take on productive, high-paying jobs where they can use their creative and critical thinking skills.
Non-feminists believe that they shouldn't work outside of the home, and so they will be more prone to depression and loneliness.

Feminists will get out of a bad or abusive relationship because they know that they are women of worth and they don't deserve to be mistreated by their partners.
Non-feminists will stay in bad and abusive relationships because they believe they are inferior to men and that men have the right to hit women.

Feminists know that if they don't want to get married, have babies, or pursue a traditional lifestyle, it's okay; so any babies they have will be wanted.
Non-feminists think the only thing they are put on this earth to do is to marry and have babies, so many of them rush into marriages too early and have babies without really discerning if it is the right choice for them, and often spend the rest of their life regretting it.

Feminists aren't afraid to make the first move, and so they "get lucky" more often.
Non-feminists think it's unladylike to make the first move, and wind up sexually unsatisfied because they didn't take the initiative.

Feminists believe that physical beauty isn't the most important thing.
Non-feminists believe they are worthless if they don't look like a supermodel, and so they are more likely to develop eating disorders and have low self-esteem.

Great question!



EDIT: As a response to your edit, it seems as though you and I have a different definition of what is considered feminist and non-feminist. You state that your non-feminist women friends do not believe they are inferior to men. By this definition, they ARE feminists. As I said before, the dictionary definition of a feminist is anyone, male or female, who believes that men and women are equal and deserve to be treated equally.
It seems to me that you have your own definition of what "feminism" is.

EDIT #2: You said "There are some situations where they prefer to be treated differently, but still respectfully." Really? Could you give me some examples? I'm not attacking you, just curious.