If the complexity of the human mind proves that God (a higher power) exists...?

Question

can't the same be said of God's mind which is infinately more complex? Does God's complexity prove that He (God) requires an even higher creator?

- sort of a take on the old adage: If God made the universe then who made God? -

Answer 1

You'll never get a satisfactory answer to this question.

Answer 2

The basis for your premise is that the human mind is complex, which takes a lot away from it.

If the God you refer to is the Judeo-Christian one, it doesn't show much sign of complexity either.

sort of a take on the old adage: If a non-complex mind asks a question how can the question be complex?

Answer 3

But what if God evolved?

Seriously, IF there is a God, this is the only explanation that makes any sense. Otherwise, as others have far more eloquently explained, God would be far too "complex" to have arisen without a creator.

Answer 4

Indeed. This is why arguments from complexity fail.

There is no physical law limiting increases in complexity as creationists like to claim, so it makes more sense to assume that the complexity we observe today resulted from a less complex state, not a more complex state.

Answer 5

In this day, facts in evidence weigh most heavily on the side of naturalistic explanations for the existence of the world, the universe and life... and I think that Creationists have introduced a fatal flaw into their 'Intelligent Design' arguments by asserting (or implying) that the 'complexity' of the universe demands a 'creator'.

The main argument for the necessity of a creator hinges on 'complexity'; i.e., "... something as complex as the world, the universe and life must have a creator... it is the only thing that makes sense." But, if you think about it (Christians, in general, are not renowned for their critical thinking skills), it makes no sense at all. In fact, the 'designer' argument is a sterling example of the logical fallacy called 'Argument from Incredulity', a subset of 'Argumentum ad Ignorantiam' ('Argument from Ignorance'). It goes something like this: "I can't conceive of (or imagine) how this might have come to be; therefore, God did it."

The argument asserts that something so complex as a pocket watch... or the universe, or life... requires a creator who, of necessity, must be more complex than the creation... otherwise, it would have been impossible for the 'creator' to 'design' it, or create it. But IF complexity requires a more complex creator, THEN the FACT of the creator's complexity demands, of necessity, that it must ALSO have been created by a MORE complex creator. Remember, according to the argument, complexity cannot arise by itself. That being the case, then, we end up with an infinite regression... creation... creator... creation... creator... creation... creator... creation... creator... etc... ad infinitum... ad nauseum... leading to infinite complexity (whatever THAT is). That is impossible... and thus, so is the concept of a creator of the universe... IF the logical argument for a creator is predicated on 'complexity'... which it is. (One way of looking at this... once you get past the creator/designer of this universe... is that each subsequent creator IS the creation of its predecessor. Trying to make sense out of that makes my hair hurt.)

(Readers should take note that 'complicated'... which is what the Intelligent Design' folks mean when they say 'complex'... is a VERY naive definition, and is not at all what scientists and mathematicians mean when they speak of 'complexity'. 'Complicated is the opposite of 'simple'. 'Complex' is the opposite of 'independent'. Complex systems are typically self-organizing and self-adaptive (which certainly doesn't apply to watches), and they typically exhibit 'emergent' properties and behaviors (also does not apply to watches). So, when creationists/IDists say 'complex', they mean 'complicated'. But when I say things like "complexity arises from simplicity", I do NOT mean that "... things get more complicated.")

Also, they can not seem to differentiate between natural systems and human artifacts (eg., a watch):

* A watch is complex (complicated).
* We know that the watch was designed and created by an intelligent agent of greater complexity.
* The universe is complex (complicated);
* Therefore, the universe, of necessity, MUST HAVE BEEN designed and created by an intelligent agent of greater complexity.

That, in a nutshell, expresses the whole of the argument for intelligent design... an exemplar of sloppy, fallacious thinking.

Creationists conveniently ignore, though, the simple observable fact that in natural systems, complexity DOES arise from simplicity, in accordance with elementary natural processes and rules.

(Interested parties should look up "self-organizing complex systems".)

The religionists might get around this dilemma by proposing that some all-powerful, supernatural, universe-creating entity evolved, all by 'himself' (itself?), from simple beginnings; but that proposition self-destructs upon the shoals of their own insistence that their deity is eternal... "always was and always will be."

The answer to the overriding question "Why" might very well be: "No reason. That's just the way it is. Get used to it." Or, maybe: "Just because." However, acknowledging those as possible (even probable) answers is NOT a reason to stop seeking for alternative answers.

The answer to the question "How" is: "We don't know yet, for sure, but we've got some pretty good, pretty interesting ideas... and we've got some really smart people working on it. Maybe we'll figure it out, some day... or, maybe not."


salient2... just saw your answer. Great stuff.

.

Answer 6

To learn that God was created by a higher power or that he had a father is something that he tells us in his written word.
Isa 43:10,11, Isa 44:6,

Answer 7

God isnt complex. God is simplest thought that can be imagine,and is nothing.

Answer 8

Nope, the buck stops at God. God is energy. It is this energy which has given life to all planets, universes, and creatures. I don't understand why it's so hard to comprehend. We try to super impose our knowledge onto God, which doesn't work.

Answer 9

Being the created rather than the creator it is difficult with regard to certain laws/powers/limits and such to understand that the infinite immortal self-existent One has the ability to created the finite mortal created ones at His leisure with no explanations necessary to Himself in any regard...He simply says "I AM" and further more...He says..."You are..." and for me I'd just be happy 'bout that. Love in Christ, ~J~

Answer 10

God was in the beginning, but the beginning and the end are infinite, and unmeasurable. God is the supreme power in the universe, there is no one before and after him. God is omnipotent, he knows every heart and soul all at once. God is love, but also great wrath which is being unleashed upon the world now.

The Book of The Lamb is being revealed to you now, and if you live through tribulation, the mystery of God should be finished, as he has declared to his servents the prophets.

Answer 11

Yeah...that whole line is illogical because it creates an infinite upward cycle of increasing complexity. If complexity requires something more more complex, there is no end possible.