Can a police officer who failed to state they were such issue a complaint?

Question

I was in a liquor store in New Jersey; not buying anything, not touching anything, but standing in line with someone over 21 who was purchasing liquor. A man walks up to me asking for my license. I stated it was in the car and I would go get it. He follows me out to the car.. which I thought was odd because he was dressed in casual clothing. It turns out I left my license at the house. The man asked if I was 21 and I said yes... he proceeded to ask me about where I live, my social security number, etc. Not once did he state he was a cop nor was I aware he was one so, using my fifth ammendment rights I gave him inaccurate information. I did not know he was a cop until after he issued a police complaint to me for "mistating age". I believe this was a violation of privacy since the man never stated he was an officer of the law. I am summoned to go to court as I cannot just pay a fine and get it over with. I think this is completely rediculous. Any suggestions in my defense?

Answer 1

Hello, I am a retired law enforcment detective and commander with over 20 years experience.

If all occured as you stated, then yes, I would say you definitely would have an affirmative defense in that you did not know this was a police officer.

However, I have to say a few questions do come to mind. If this person showed no identification whatsoever, did not verbally identify themselves in anyway, and had not any other type of identification, ie uniform etc...then why in the world would you discuss your personal information with him? Why would you then go out to your car to get your identification for this person if you didnt know they were the police? Why would you not ask who they were or ask for identification? If you didnt know they were the police, why use your "5th amendment rights of non-incrimination" so you wouldnt be incriminated? Why did you not ask the clerk who this person was if you didnt know they were the police?

Believe me these are questions the prosecutor would ask because quite frankly, as you laid out the facts, it sounds like you knew this person was indeed the police.

With that being said, if this person didnt identify themselves at all as you say, then yes, I would take it to trial if they want to press it. I suspect however that once you show up, show your identification to the prosecutor, they will dismiss the case. Its like being cited for "failure to display drivers license" even though you have one, just not on you. You show up, show the license, and they dismiss. I imagine thats what will happen here.

If they want to press it then by all means take it to trial. Say quite simply that without any type of indentification, you had no clue that this person was the police so you are not required to present personal information about yourself. If the officer states he/she did in fact properly identify themselves, you will face an uphill battle to explain why you did all you did if you didnt know they were the police. Also I would stongly adivse you not mention that 5th amendment stuff as that sounds as if you did in fact know or suspect they were the police. Nobody is worried about self incrimination from someone who is not law enforcement.

If you truly didnt know this person was the police, I must caution you about divulging personal information to anyone who seems to ask.

Finally, once again I am confident that once you show your proper identification to the prosecutor and explain you just quite simply left it at home by accident, they will dismiss the charge.

Answer 2

Your understanding of the 5th amendment is flawed or your explanation is flawed.
The 5th amendment applies to incriminating statements made to government authorities. You state, "Not once did he state he was a cop nor was I aware he was one...." If you did not know he was an officer then the 5th amendment does not apply. Further, even if you knew he was an officer, the 5th amendment does not now nor did it ever give you the right to lie to an officer conducting an investigation. The right given in the 5th amendment is to remain silent.
What you had was a consensual encounter. The man asked you some questions & you consented to answering his questions.
IF as you state, the man did not identify himself, then you have a defense. You had no obligation to accurately state your age to just anyone who approaches you in public. The prosecution argument will likely be that he either did identify himself or that the circumstances should have led you to know he was an officer. [The simplest explanation to this would be an officer in uniform does not have to identify himself.] The defense I see from your description of the incident is based on your knowledge or lack of knowledge that you were talking with an officer. It will be up to you to convince a judge/jury that you did not know. Claiming the 5th works against that defense.

I do wonder, since you did not posses an alcoholic beverage nor were you attempting to buy an alcoholic beverage, why would you feel a need to lie about your age? In your state, is it illegal to be in a liquor store if you are underage?

Answer 3

The Fifth Amendment doesn't give you the right to give inaccurate information. You do, however, have the right to ask who he is and why he's asking you questions.
I'm not sure about the law in NJ, but I thought you had to be 21 y/o to even enter a liquor store. If that is the case, then you have no case.
If anything this sounds like a violation of protocol (and again that depends on the agency and the laws in NJ) on the officer's part, but has nothing to do with violating privacy.

Answer 4

So a strange adult approaches a young female in the store and you take him to your car? Not a safe thing to do. Good way to find yourself kidnapped.

Then the same strange adult starts asking for your personal information and this did not set off alarm bells?

As soon as that happened, you should have asked him why he needed that. Any real police officer is going to identify himself. And since there are real looking badges and stuff on the internet - I don't think a real police offier (who does not have the marked car and uniform to go with the badge) would not be offended if you told him that for saftey reasons, you'd like to verify that he is an officer before you give that information.

While you are standing with him - call the department he says he works for and confirm that he is who he says he is. Again, if your respectful about it - I don't think the police officer would be offended. If he did get hostile/offended, that would be a red flag to me that the guy may not be who he claims to be.

To me, the mistake was in lying to him - that's the part that makes you look bad. Granted, I'm no police officer, but I don't think one would be offended if you said (in a respectful manner) - that you would be willing to give that information once he can confirm who he is - otherwise, for personal safety reasons you are not going to give that information until you can get confirmation that he is law enforcement.

In some areas, it is not legal for someone to be in the liquor store if they are under 21. In my state, I can not have someone under the age of 21 help me carry alcohol to my car after I have purchased it. This comes from too many 21yo buying beer for their under 21 friends and saying "oh, its for my use" and then giving to the minor.

Answer 5

The fifth amendment doesn't apply to pedigree information. Just admit it, you knew all along that he was a cop and you got caught in a lie. Had you honestly believed he was just some random dude, you never would have complied with his request to get your license. You have no "right to privacy" when you're in a liquor store with someone who's buying alcohol.

Answer 6

Yes. If you don't know who you are talking to ask "who are you?" for starters. Secondly you didn't exercise your 5th amendment. You lied to a police officer to evade arrest. Or whatever they call it where you live...basically you lied to a cop conducting an investigation. Your story doesn't make too much sense btw....some guy asks for your id and you just ok and walk to your car and it doesn't bother you that he followed you. And what about your friend? and the guy working at the store? If no one knew who he was they would have reacted diffrently. you're lying about something here. There is no violation of privacy..it's legit. You are underage with someone who is buying alcohol for you and you lied to the police....suck it up and stop breaking the law.

Answer 7

Your fifth amendment rights do not apply, this is more of a question of fourth amendment, covering search and seizure. I'm curious as to why you complied with him if he didn't identify himself. However, all he is required to prove is the elements of the offense. One of the elements of obstructing, or giving false information, requires you know the subject is a cop. However, if you were simply charged with being underage in a liquor store, the elements would be met and there is likely enough evidence to convict.

Answer 8

This sounds like the arguments that the sovereign citizen movement uses to try to get out of paying taxes and avoid criminal responsibility when charged. The problem with the argument is that has been consistently rejected by the Courts, especially in tax cases. Based on my understanding of your argument, which admittedly is limited to the cases I have read about and personally dealt with as a prosecutor, and the fact that your argument is barely comprehensible, the appeals court is likely to dismiss the appeal as lacking merit.

Answer 9

why didnt u just tell him u were w/ a friend or why were u in the store anyway. b4 i was 21 i sent ppl in the liquor store told them what i wanted i didnt go in because if u dont look 21 they might ask for 2 ids or not sell it at all. u must b retarded.

Answer 10

well, you should have asked him how it was any of his buisness when he started asking you questions
he didn't violate your privacy beause you just answered away
you also shouldn't have lied about the age.
but since you were in the store with a person of legal age, and you yourself were not trying to purchase any alcohol, you should be able to explain your way out of trouble.