to jehovah's witnesses......a doozy .....enjoy!?

Question

in the new world translation of the holy scriptures, if you compare john 1:1 (where the jehovahs witnesses changed the scripture to note Jesus as simply "a god". )
How do you justify Isaiah 9:6 when Jesus was called "Mighty God" and "Eternal Father".....

notice the CAPITAL "G"
I know how jw's are sticklers for complete accurate knowledge.

and...i have a feeling that some of you will try to back this up by saying that he is not called the "Almighty God" as jehovah would be called....but in Isaiah 10:21 God is only refered to as Mighty. (upper case "M")
& in Jeremiah 32:18 God is refered to as mighty (lower case "m" )

so....if Mighty means lesser, then technically Jehovah would be concidered lesser right?

this is a serious question here please

you guys can say that the capital "G" does not amount to anything, but i was taught as a jw child that ment everything. that is what is used to denote the status of someone. you cannot discredit that to suit your needs. and if that DOES conflict with other scriptures you guys have pointed out,,,,,well..then...that is a biblical contridiction.

Answer 1

Mosies

Jesus wasn't an Archangel!

For to which of the angels did He ever say: “ You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You. Heb. 1:5

God can't lie. Titus 1:2

All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. 2 Tim. 3:16-17

***
Unsilenced-
That kinda how the wall came tumbling down for my wife. They just shatter! Thanks for that! God Bless!

Answer 2

"For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he WILL BE CALLED Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."

Careful readers will note that the prophecy in Isaiah says that the Messiah "will be called" by such names as Mighty God, Eternal Father. If that were in reference to Jehovah, he would have already been known as such when the prophecy was written. Secondly, Trinitarians are faced with the obvious absurdity that the Son of God is also his own Father. Supposedly a distinction between the Father and the Son of their tribune godhead.Thirdly, a prince is a son of a king. Jehovah is the King, not a prince.

Jesus is a Mighty God by virtue of the fact that Jehovah appoints him to that high office. That is in fact what the prophecy is foretelling, namely that the Messiah will inherit the throne of David and rule God's kingdom in place of God. Jesus becomes the Eternal Father of mankind by virtue of the fact that he brings the dead back to life and grants them everlasting life.

The Bible explains how our original father, Adam, brought death upon the whole race. Jesus is called the Last Adam because he replaces Adam as mankind's father. He will become our Eternal Father when he abolishes death and imparts everlasting life to Adam's offspring.

Answer 3

Is. 9:6: "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder; and his name shall be called Wonderful Counsellor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace."


Even trinitarians do not confuse the two separate persons of the Father and the Son. They do not say the Son is the Father. They say the Father and the Son are two separate individual persons who are equally "God"!
Therefore, since we obviously cannot take "Eternal Father" in the literal sense to mean that Jesus is the Father, we cannot take the rest of that same name (esp. `Mighty God') in its literal highest sense and say that Jesus is Mighty God, etc., either.



Even TRINITARIAN SCHOLARS have to admit that they do NOT believe this scripture implies an equality with Jehovah the Father. Note the following Bible translations by TRINITARIAN SCHOLARS which apply the words in the name at Is. 9:6 in a SUBORDINATE sense directly to Jesus:

Instead of "Mighty God," Dr. James Moffatt translated this part of Is. 9:6 as "a divine hero;" Byington has "Divine Champion;" The New English Bible has "In Battle Godlike;" The Catholic New American Bible (1970 and 1991 revision) renders it "God-Hero;" and the REB says "Mighty Hero." Even that most-respected of Biblical Hebrew language experts, Gesenius, translated it "mighty hero" - p. 45, Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon.

Also, The NIV Study Bible, in a f.n. for Ps 45:6, tells us:
"In this psalm, which praises the king and especially extols his `splendor and majesty' (v. 3), it is not unthinkable that he was called `god' as a title of honor [cf. Isa 9:6]." (Bracketed information included in original footnote.)


Read more:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JWquestions_and_answers_archives/message/101

Answer 4

John 1:1 is, of course, a particularly favorite scripture of many. Notably, it is a favorite of proponents of the Trinity doctrine which teaches that Jesus is God Almighty or Jehovah of the Old Testament. They are quite used to a translation which renders John 1:1, in part, as "the word was God." "Witnesses have rewritten John 1:1 to suit their own theology," say some. Is this really so? Have Witnesses taken unauthorized liberty in translating this verse? Are they the only ones who have ever translated John 1:1 in this fashion? No, not really. Though many Bibles read "…and the word was God", not all of them follow this form.

Notice how The Bible – An American Translation by Smith & Goodspeed (1935) reads: "the word was Divine."

Notice the New Translation of the Bible by James Moffatt (1934) reads: "the Logos was divine"

Notice the NTIV (1808) reads: "the word was a god."

Now all of these translations predate the NWT. So that means that not only are Jehovah's Witnesses not unique in this translation, they neither introduced it nor invented it to support a peculiar theology. But of all Bible translations, your favorite as well as those above, which agrees with the context? Well, notice verse 18 which plainly states that NO MAN HAS EVER SEEN GOD. But verse 14 clearly states that "the word became flesh and resided among us. We have beheld his glory." So people saw Jesus, didn't they? "Yes, of course," they say, "he was God but we saw him because he became human and took on human flesh." I ask, then, was Jesus God? "Yes!" they say. I ask, was Jesus always God? "Yes," they say, "always!" Well then, when Jesus was here, the people saw Jehovah God. So we have just invalidated verse 18 above and called God a liar.

But according to Jesus' own words at John 10:35, no scripture can be nullified. So then, Isaiah 9:6 must be true. But John 17:3 must also be true – where Jesus calls his heavenly father the only true God. Moreover, John 20:17 must also be true – where Jesus plainly states he has not yet ascended to his God. Furthermore, Revelation 3:12 must also be true, where the resurrected Jesus, having returned to the heavens, calls God his God.

In view of the above, I respectfully ask, if we accept the doctrine of the Trinity, if we accept the teaching that Jesus Christ is God Almighty – Jehovah God – Yahweh - how do we reconcile all of these scriptures? How are we to understand them, each in the light of the other? How are we to understand the words of Jesus Christ himself?

If one were to come to the table with the Bible of his choice and do a careful reading of all scriptures dealing with God and Jesus Christ – and this independent of any reference whatsoever to the doctrine of the trinity – one should be guided to the very scriptural and inescapable conclusion that Jesus is just what he said he is – the son of God and not God Almighty.

This question arises on a fairly regular basis. And yet, I have never seen any Trinitarian explain the words of Jesus Christ at Luke 4:8, John 17:3, John 20:17, and Revelation 3:12.

Hannah J Paul

Answer 5

In my search for truth I believe what the Bible teaches, that Jesus was sent by God to die for us. Jesus NEVER SAID he was God but did say that he was God's Son.
Jesus asked the Apostles who do you say that I am? Peter said you are the Son of the living God.
John wrote in John 1:18 that NO MAN HAS SEEN GOD.
Why would John say this when he saw Jesus and walked with Jesus and loved Jesus very much. That would have been blasphemy on John's part for saying this.
We are wise to listen to God's own voice at Jesus baptism when he said this is my Son the beloved whom I have approved.
Why don't we listen to the scriptures?
The word trinity is a man made word that's not found in any translation.
We have to be humble and honest with ourselves that the trinity is NOT A BIBLE TEACHING.

Answer 6

Isn't it astounding how a Q about Isaiah ch 9 & 10 elicits reams of JW comments about John 1:1?

One JW DID make a valid point about the Hebrew scriptures - that there are no capital letters in it, so the point is NOT about capital letters. Quite correct. The point is whether exactly the same Hebrew word used of Christ in ch 9 is used of Jehovah in ch 10. And, guess what, IT IS! (el-gibboor, if my memory serves me right; I don't have a Hebrew lexicon to hand.) There is not one iota difference in the Hebrew. Christ and Jehovah share this title, and that gives anti-Trinitarians a problem, which they seek to deal with by jumping to the Greek scriptures and another text! Tisk tisk!

The only other relevant JW point (so far) is that the Hebrew scriptures sometimes call human rulers 'gods' (with a small 'g' due to context) and Jesus threw this point in the face of disrespectful ridiculers. Again, context is vital to establish what Jesus meant. John 10:22-39 is the passage where disbelievers pressed him to prove he was The Christ. His claim that he and his Father are one caused them to pick up stones to kill him for blasphemy. He stopped them in their tracks by quoting Psalm 82:6, where judges and rulers whose tasks were divinely appointed are called 'gods'. His point (wasted on JWs, alas) was that if their human rulers could be called 'gods', how much more may the term be used of him whom the Father set apart and sent! The Son of God is immeasurably superior in rank to human rulers with divinely appointed tasks. So he told them to consider his miracles, if they wouldn't believe his words, because 'the Father is in me, and I in the Father'. Again they tried to seize him for blasphemy. That should put the matter of human 'gods' in its proper place. The deity of Christ is Something Else!

Answer 7

this is a serious question here please, you are right, but it does not matter what answer you receive, you would never accept it, even Moses if he could sent you & answer, you would not believe or accept it. And I believe I know why, may be wrong, but this is my reason.

Were you disfellowshipped?

If you were disfellowshipped, for what reason?
Here are some reasons one can be removed from
the Congregation, please choose one or more.

Some of the offenses that could merit disfellowshipping from the Christian congregation are fornication, adultery, homosexuality, greed, extortion, thievery, lying, drunkenness, reviling, spiritism, murder, idolatry, apostasy, and the causing of divisions in the congregation.

Or is it just because you hate what we believe?

Jesus is also “Mighty God” and “Eternal Father.” This does not mean that he usurps the authority and position of Jehovah, who is “God our Father.” (2 Corinthians 1:2) “He (Jesus) gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God.” (Philippians 2:6) He is called Mighty God, not Almighty God. Jesus never thought of himself as God Almighty, for he spoke of his Father as “the only true God,” that is, the only God who should be worshiped. (John 17:3) In the Scriptures, the word “god” can mean “mighty one” or “strong one.” (Exodus 12:12; Psalm 8:5; 2 Corinthians 4:4) Before Jesus came to earth, he was “a god,” “existing in God’s form.” After his resurrection, he returned to an even higher position in the heavens. (John 1:1; Philippians 2:6-11) Further, the designation “god” carries an additional implication. Judges in Israel were called “gods”, once by Jesus himself. (John 10:35) Jesus is Jehovah’s appointed Judge, “destined to judge the living and the dead.” (2 Timothy 4:1; John 5:30) Clearly, he is well named Mighty God.

Answer 8

Jesus was the angel of Covenant that God (Jehovah) said in Malachi 3:1 that will send, all angels are sons of God (Job 1:6 and 2:1 and 38:4-7) also all the sons of God are gods or divine according to Psalms 82:1-6. Jesus is the firstson or angel of God (Colossians 1:15-17) that is why the bible describe him as a powerful angel (Revelation 10:1) and also why his voice is the voice of an Archangel, also the bible mention in Daniel 12:1 and archangel Michael (Jesus)bringing great tribulation and resurrection of people at the end of the time, the only one that resurrect people is Jesus with the power given by Jehovah unless both Jesus and Michael can do the same, which the bible don´t say thatGod gave authority to two people to resurrect us.


BY THE WAY in the original greek text the word "god" was written in different ways in John 1:1 the first time with capital letter the second time non-capitalized I can show you here in internet.

Jesus is called eternal father cause when we accept Jesus we are changing Adam as our father that inherit us sin and change him by Jesus and receiving everlasting life.

IF Jesus is not an archangel then why God compare him with them? who compares computers with cars? normally we compare things or people of the same kind.....

Why the description of Revelation 10:1 match in every single detail with Jesus? and why his voice is the voice of Archangel? why the bible call him the angel (messenger) of covenant in Malachi 3:1?

there are hundreds of bible verse that prove that, if that is false then the bible lies...

SIMON61 John was written in greek not in hebrew.

SOLDIER : I am using the bible no matter what version not using any other book.

Answer 9

Yes! What Hannah said... =)
Also notable is the fact that the apostles saw Jesus ascending into heaven, which no flesh may enter, so at this time Jesus was a spirit being, yet the bible says "No man has ever seen God".

Answer 10

In English, Titles when used in place of names are captitalized.

Might God, Eternal Father, are titles thus are captitalized.

Please read the foot note from the NAB (a trinitarian bible)

2 [1] In the beginning: also the first words of the Old Testament (Genesis 1:1). Was: this verb is used three times with different meanings in this verse: existence, relationship, and predication. The Word (Greek logos): this term combines God's dynamic, creative word (Genesis), personified preexistent Wisdom as the instrument of God's creative activity (Proverbs), and the ultimate intelligibility of reality (Hellenistic philosophy). With God: the Greek preposition here connotes communication with another. Was God: lack of a definite article with "God" in Greek signifies predication rather than identification.

(predication is just another word for 'quality'. Thus God(2) is a quality and NOT an identification.

Does this agree with the rest of the Bible?)

NASB:
Heb 1:3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

2 Cor 4:4in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

(Did you notice the glory of Christ is that of an image?
If you believe Jesus is more than an image of God, then you are being blinded by Satan.)

According you your reasoning, Moses is called God to Pharoah, (original Hebrew didn't say 'as God' it says 'God to Pharoah'

Then Moses must be God equal to the Father.

John 10:29-36

Jesus identified his godship as being equal to the human judges of Israel, not that he was equal to his Father.

Jesus' oneness is in works (read the context) not Godship.

Jesus removed all doubt about who he was in vs:

36do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God'?

The jews wanted to stone Jesus not because he was saying he was God the Father, but his Father's Son.

According to the context you read John 10:30 as

I and the Father are one in works.

John chapter one:

Who is Jesus?

The Witness John the Baptist:

14And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

(The glory of the only begotten [or Son] from the Father)

29The next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

(Jesus is the Lamb of God, not God)

34"I myself have seen, and have testified that this is the Son of God."

(John the Baptist had no doubt who Jesus is, The Son of God.)

Andrew:

41He found first his own brother Simon and said to him, "We have found the Messiah" (which translated means Christ).

(Heb 1:9 Jesus' God anointed him)

Nathanael:

49Nathanael answered Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel."

The first book of John testifies that Jesus the image of God, the Son of God, the Lamb of God, came to the earth to Glorify and teach people about His God and Father.

Rev 1:5and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth To Him who loves us and released us from our sins by His blood--

6and He has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father--to Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.

Thus even the apostle John teaches that Jehovah is the God and Father of the Lord Jesus Christ, 60 years after he was glorified in heaven.

.

Answer 11

That's a really good question. One that I will have to do some research on and get back to you on it. It deserves a better answer than I can give right now.