Oh, sure, I agree that he SAID he was God... he was just WRONG!!!
2007-09-05 11:15:06
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answer #1
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answered by Anonymous
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A common misconception is that GOD, when speaking to Moses via the burning bush said the famous quote: "I AM". Trinitarians attempt to match this so-called 'same' usage of Ex. 3:14 to John 8:58 to try and show that Jesus is God.
However, actual research will show that ehyeh (a form of the verb "to be" or hayah in OT manuscripts), the word translated as "I Am" at Ex. 3:14, is in reality, intended as "I Will Be" not "I Am".
Even the TRINITARIAN Today's Dictionary of the Bible, 1982, Bethany House, pp. 330-331, admits of Ex. 3:14 -
"It has been rendered, `I WILL BE that I WILL BE' as an indication of God's sovereignty and immutability" and "the translation ... that probably comes closest to the intention of God at this point is, `I will be there'."
So God did not say that his name was 'I Am' at Ex. 3:14. He didn't even say that the meaning of his name (which is what he was actually explaining) was 'I Am' but, instead 'I Will Be'. Therefore, Jesus' saying "I am" at John 8:58 was also obviously not used as a name (as context shows). But even if it were being so used, it would still not be God's name.
Many Bible versions render John 8:58 this way: "Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am."
But are the words "I am" used here REALLY supposed to be God's NAME? Even if it were so, would it make sense in John 8:58 for Jesus to say the equivalent of, "Most assuredly I say to you, before Abraham was...Jehovah?!?"
Looking at the context, the correct phrasing of this sentence should be "I was" instead of "I am" when used after the word "before." Also in verse 57, the question to which Jesus was replying had to do with age, not identity.
During the exchange with the Jews leading up to John 8:58, nowhere does Jesus claim to be God. And as we've already seen, the words "I am" at John 8:58 (including the blatant unwarranted use of capitalization in many Bibles) is not only inaccurate but nonsensical.
Several translations phrase John 8:58 the correct way by which Jesus was actually illustrating how long he has existed. One, for instance:
"Jesus answered, "The truth is, I existed before Abraham was even born!" (NLT)
2007-09-05 18:47:50
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answer #2
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answered by Anonymous
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AT JOHN 8:58 a number of translations, for instance The Jerusalem Bible, have Jesus saying: “Before Abraham ever was, I Am.” Was Jesus there teaching, as Trinitarians assert, that he was known by the title “I Am”? And, as they claim, does this mean that he was Jehovah of the Hebrew Scriptures, since the King James Version at Exodus 3:14 states: “God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM”?
At Exodus 3:14 (KJ) the phrase “I AM” is used as a title for God to indicate that he really existed and would do what he promised. The Pentateuch and Haftorahs, edited by Dr. J. H. Hertz, says of the phrase: “To the Israelites in bondage, the meaning would be, ‘Although He has not yet displayed His power towards you, He will do so; He is eternal and will certainly redeem you.’ Most moderns follow Rashi [a French Bible and Talmud commentator] in rendering [Exodus 3:14] ‘I will be what I will be.’”
God’s reply in Hebrew was: ’Eh·yeh′ ’Asher′ ’Eh·yeh′. Some translations render this as “I AM THAT I AM.” However, it is to be noted that the Hebrew verb ha·yah′, from which the word ’Eh·yeh′ is drawn, does not mean simply “be.” Rather, it means “become,” or “prove to be.” The reference here is not to God’s self-existence but to what he has in mind to become toward others. Therefore, the New World Translation properly renders the above Hebrew expression as “I SHALL PROVE TO BE WHAT I SHALL PROVE TO BE.” Jehovah thereafter added: “This is what you are to say to the sons of Israel, ‘I SHALL PROVE TO BE has sent me to you.’”—Ex 3:14,
The expression at John 8:58 is quite different from the one used at Exodus 3:14. Jesus did not use it as a name or a title but as a means of explaining his prehuman existence. Hence, note how some other Bible versions render John 8:58:
1869: “From before Abraham was, I have been.” The New Testament, by G. R. Noyes.
1935: “I existed before Abraham was born!” The Bible—An American Translation, by J. M. P. Smith and E. J. Goodspeed.
1965: “Before Abraham was born, I was already the one that I am.” Das Neue Testament, by Jörg Zink.
1981: “I was alive before Abraham was born!” The Simple English Bible.
1984: “Before Abraham came into existence, I have been.” New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures.
Thus, the real thought of the Greek used here is that God’s created “firstborn,” Jesus, had existed long before Abraham was born.—Colossians 1:15; Proverbs 8:22, 23, 30; Revelation 3:14.
Again, the context shows this to be the correct understanding. This time the Jews wanted to stone Jesus for claiming to “have seen Abraham” although, as they said, he was not yet 50 years old. (Verse 57) Jesus’ natural response was to tell the truth about his age. So he naturally told them that he “was alive before Abraham was born!”—The Simple English Bible.
2007-09-05 19:09:50
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answer #3
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answered by PcCowboy 2
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Actually Moses asked," and who shall I tell them sent me" and God answered tell them I am that I am.
While I understand the phrase Jesus is God in the context of the trinity I do have one concern.
Is it conceivable that we are denying God the Father when we say that.
When Jesus made that statement it could have strictly been referring to the fact that Jesus has been there since the foundations of earth were laid.
2007-09-05 18:10:55
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answer #4
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answered by drg5609 6
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God told Moses 'I am" and when Jesus came here speaking through God He said 'I am" also He was the voice of God just as you should pray to Jesus to get to God!
2007-09-05 18:04:47
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answer #5
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answered by meister 4
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I AM is what we all have in common. No one even notices the fundamental experience of I AM. It is most always covered over by whatever follows I AM. I am depressed. I am unhappy. I am pissed. Jesus said that Christ is in every man and He was referring to I AM.
2007-09-05 18:05:15
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answer #6
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answered by Premaholic 7
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That's why they picked up stones to kill Him. That's one reason why when they finally got Him tied up before the Romans they said, "We have a law, and by our law He ought to die." Yep, He's either God or He's a liar.
2007-09-05 18:15:44
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answer #7
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answered by shirleykins 7
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Bingo...and this wasn't the only time he claimed to be God but it was a good one!
2007-09-05 18:11:32
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answer #8
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answered by KAL 7
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Not sure about this one, but I think it was "I am what I am." This was later used as a centerpiece for a musical, and certainly didn't harm Jennifer Holiday's career either.
2007-09-05 18:02:15
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answer #9
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answered by Anonymous
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Yes i agree.
God bless
2007-09-05 18:02:35
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answer #10
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answered by Anonymous
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