Creationism challenge 2!! Where's the evidence?

Question

RULES:

Here's your chance to bring your evidence for creation as a scientific hypothesis. If creation is true, then there should be good evidence to support it's truth claim. Please present evidence for creation that does not violate one of the following criteria.

1) You must give only scientifically verifiable evidence FOR I.D. or Creationism
2) You may not attempt only to discredit parts, or the whole of evolutionary theory.
3) You may not claim that some other scientific principle runs contrary to evolutionary theory, i.e. 2nd law of thermodynamics (which it doesn't, if it did evolutionary theory would have died out years ago).
4) You must at least appear to know what you're talking about.
5) No arguments from ignorance. i.e. "we don't know how X happened, herefore magic man did it."
6) No scripture.
7) Don't post anything that has already be falsified by scientific inquiry i.e. thermodynamics, irreducible complexity, or the Paluxy footprints.

Good luck.

Answer 1

What's the case for creationism?

Let's look at the whole thing - the arguments, the evidence, everything - and strip away what's invalid until we get to the heart of the matter:

Lies
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Let's take away all the outright lies such as "Darwin recanted on his deathbed" and "there are no transitional fossils" and "no-one has ever seen speciation occur".

Deceptions
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Let's take away all the dishonest selective quoting from The Origin of Species, the implication that controversy over the details of evolution means controversy over the fact that it occurs, equivocation over the word 'theory', and so on.

Logical Fallacies
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Let's dispose of all the logical fallacies employed routinely by creationists, such as:

o Argument from Ignorance ("I can't see how feature X could have evolved, therefore it couldn't have evolved");

o Strawman ("evolutionists say that living organisms popped out of nowhere by pure random chance");

o Argument from Adverse Consequences ("if everyone knew that we were just the products of evolution they would have no reason to be morally good");

o Non sequitur ("if evolution was true we would see rocks with wings" or "if evolution was true we would see dogs giving birth to cats");

o Invalid premise ("the Bible is true, the Bible says living organisms were created, therefore evolution is false");

... and many others.

The Evidence
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OK, so having stripped away all the lies, deceptions and fallacies used to argue for creationism, we come to the evidence:

Well, actually, there isn't any. There is not one single valid argument, nor one scrap of objective evidence for creationism. This is why creationism is not science, but simply an unsupported religious belief.

Answer 2

Both the Bible and good philosophy report that God is non-physical - spirit. In John 4:24 it is said that God is spirit (see also Luke 24:39; Romans 1:20; Colossians 1:15; 1 Timothy 1:17). This is why no material thing was to be used to represent God (Exodus 20:4). But this can also be shown by reflecting on what God is. Philosophically the same truth comes through. All that is created is necessarily finite and limited. But the first cause (God) is uncreated, and therefore must be non-finite, or infinite. That which is beyond the finite must, by definition, be infinite, and the Bible states that God is beyond creation (1 Kings 8:27; Job 11:7-9; Isaiah 66:1-2; Colossians 1:17). That which is physical cannot be infinite - for you cannot add finite parts together until they reach infinity. Therefore God is spirit as opposed to physical/material in His Being. This does not mean He cannot localize a physical appearance. God is not composed of matter nor any other imaginable substance. He also cannot be measured, is not spatial, and has no true location (presence is a different concept). People without spiritual discernment, understanding or wisdom can't even begin to question mysteries like evil, healing, why we feel nakedness, blood, etc... Their pride is their god and that is why there are scoffers and mockers in the final days.

Answer 3

Sorry, I'm not playing by your rules, but then again, I'm no creatioinst. This is basically a response to Someone who Cares.

The earliest "modern humans" were hunter gatherers and generally lived in small nomadic groups. Oral tradition and drawings would have sufficed to cover their basic communication. There would have been little point in trying to develop a written language amongst such small communities when time and resources were better spent on survival.

It wasn't until about 10,000 years ago that the advent of agriculture allowed permanent settlements. This, in turn, would stimulate the development of written language as trade and cooperation between settlements picked up.

Now, instead of your 195,000 year gap, there is something less than 4500. Consider how long it took you to learn to read and write as a child, then imagine doing it with no framework or guidance, and the number decreases even further.

Answer 4

Yes, where is the evidence. Specifically, writing?

Modern humans have been around, according to currently prevailing scientific theories for about 150,000 to 200,000 years. We have millions of writing samples from ancient times, but the oldest is 5,500 years.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/334517.stm
Surely there shouild be at least SOME writing samples out of the billions and billions that must of been created and survived by essentially the same type of modern humans during the other 195,000 years of their existence. It is curious that there is not one sample. Perhaps some will argue that no samples survived, but then all of a sudden going back a few thousand years ago we start to find hundreds and thousands and millions of samples of ancient writings in clay, pottery,etc. Where is the evidence from the other 195,000 years?

Update Recreant:
The statistical improbability of suggesting the modern type humans did not develop writing because they did not have agriculture for 190,000 years, then all of a sudden developed agriculture and thousands of written languages in 5,000 years or so is quite remarkable that anyone could believe it. Modern humans were hunter gatherers for 190,000 years and developed nothing beyond that. Add to that the facts about developing languages compounds your hypothesis.

By going through these languages briefly, touching on them only as they retain intelligence from the original language, we will prove several simple facts:

1. That no group of people, once they lose the memory of their writing system, has ever been able to regain it again without outside help.

2. That no group of people, once they lose the memory of their spoken language, has ever been able to regain it again without outside help. That is, if you were to isolate newborn persons and never speak to them, they would never of themselves create anything like a spoken language.

3. That every literate language (and practically every illiterate one) can be proven to be descended from one and the same parent language.

4. That every parent language is superior in every way to each and every one of its descendent languages.

There has never in the history of the world been any unknown language recovered without a key of some kind. Linear B was not an unknown language; it was a known language in a previously unknown script.

Answer 5

Easy. It is logic. Why don't you study it? Nothing is self sustaining or self creating anywhere in this universe. There is always a cause and effect. Look at a car. We, humans who are greater than a car created the car. God, who is greater than time, planets, space, stars, life, etc. is greater than all those things. It's quite simple.

Answer 6

Apply the same rules to evolution. Same result.

Your faith in scientific supposition is astounding. There is no evidence in support of evolution without having to take great leaps of faith. Stretching to the very limits the imagination of man.

Join the party my man.

Answer 7

This should be funny. Since there is no evidence for creationism, I wonder what they will make up this time.

Answer 8

Science IS the evidence ;oP
Peace & Blessings