How can Christians say that God gave us freedom and choice?

Question

When we're slaves to nature?

What I mean are our natural human limitations and weaknesses and our natural biological needs that we truly have no choice/control over?

Answer 1

We are "slaves" only to the most basic "nature" instincts we have such as needing to sleep, eat, defecate, breathe.

The rest, even the instinct to procreate, is free choice - and nobody needs Jesus to be able to make those free choices be the right ones.

We all have minds, and we all have willpower, and we are all quite capable of making good decisions.

Nobody "has" to sin unless they choose to for the most part but for those few instances when we've done an inadvertant sin (as well as any we choose to do), what we do for forgiveness and total repentance is pray to God for forgiveness.

To do this was given in the book of Hosea by God as an answer to the question from the Jews as to what they should do for forgiveness, now that the Temple was destroyed.

Long before Jesus. No need for a pagan HUMAN virgin blood sacrifice for sin like the ancient Baal worshippers did. This has NEVER been the role of the Messiah in Judaism or in what God gave on Mt. Sinai for the Messiah to do.

Prayer, asking for forgiveness, making reparations when necessary, and never doing it again are what make sincere true repentance according to God in Hosea.

We are *not* born with a sin nature as the Church invented and teaches its followers, to keep them in line and coming back to the Church. There is no such concept in Judaism and never has been. We are born with clean, pure souls and it is what we CHOOSE to do after we are born and reach the age of understanding that decides whether we blemish them or not. Take responsibility for your own thoughts, deeds, and actions, people. Nobody can do that for you, including Jesus.

Source: Me, Judaism, Torah

Answer 2

I don't think we are completely slaves to nature. We make choices, reason, and love. It's a mixture.
Human beings judge each other by their external actions. God judges them by their moral choices.
When a man who has been perverted from his youth and taught that cruelty is the right thing, does some tiny little kindness, or refrains from some cruelty he might have committed and thereby, perhaps, risks being sneered at by his companions, he may, in God’s eyes, be doing more than you and I would do if we gave up life itself for a friend.
It is well to put this the other way round.
Some of us who seem quite nice people may, in fact, have made so little use of a good heredity and a good upbringing that we are really worse than those whom we regard as fiends. Can we be quite certain how we should have behaved if we had been saddled with the psychological outfit, and then with the bad upbringing and then with the power say, of Himmler? That is why Christians are told not to judge. We see only the results which a man’s choices make out of his raw material. But God does not judge him on what he is given at all, but on what he has done with it. Most of the man’s psychological make-up is probably due to his body. When his body dies all that will fall off him, and the real central man, the thing that chose, that made the best or worst out of his material will stand naked.
All sorts of nice things which we thought our own, but which were really due to a good digestion, will fall off some of us: all sorts of nasty things which were due to complexes or bad health will fall off others. We shall then see, for the first time, see everyone as he really was. There will be surprises.

There are plenty of other arguments against Christianity that are better than this one. Obviously you don't want to learn something or hear the other side, you just want to be right. Try theodicy or something. That's a good one.

Answer 3

Hi, Threshold,

I'm not sure what you mean by saying we are "slaves to nature." If you mean we need to eat, sleep, breathe, and protect ourselves from the cold, these are certainly not options. But that doesn't make us slaves.

God made us with free will, in contrast with all his other creatures. The others have instincts that leave them few, if any, decisions. Not so with humanity. We are born completely helpless, and we learn from our parents and other caregivers over two decades of immaturity how to adapt to the challenges of life. We quickly learn that we have choices, and sometimes the choice is a matter of life or death. Often it is a choice between happiness and misery.

The author of Deuteronomy, attributed to Moses, put it well: "This day I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live and that you may love the LORD your God, listen to his voice, and hold fast to him."

Cheers,
Bruce

Answer 4

Are we slaves to nature? I suppose Christians might say nature has nothing to do with us or God... but then again, if you are looking for Christian answers, look at the Bible. First page: Genesis. God made Adam and Eve and the world, gave us free will, etc. The God they describe as omnipotent and all knowing places a fruit-bearing tree in the center of the garden and says "Don't eat of it." Well, he knows what's going to happen because he is "all-knowing and omnipotent," so why does he put it there? Do we really have free will?

You are asking the wrong questions, I think.

Answer 5

Slaves to nature! How interesting... Do you have freedom over a Hurricane,,,,no....but you can make a choice to get out of it's way...more people are harmed by nature, because they make the choice to stay and try to combat it.

A foolish choice as so many in New Orleans know now....what people don't understand, is that a lot of those people in those flood waters,,,,chose to stay and protect their belonging or they thought they could tough it out....they couldn't....some lost their lives taking on nature and trying to protect their material things....

You are a slave to many things. You can be a slave to food,,,sex....drugs..alcohol.....but nature....nature does not enslave you.

Answer 6

First off- It means we are bound by life's choices everyday. Meaning exactly this- You will come across problems in this life. He never promised it would be easy. We have to choose either right choices or wrong. It is the choices we make that define who we are. Just cause in our minds we sometimes or all the times make the choices alright that we make. Does not mean they are alright, you need to know all the commands we have, He gave us those commands for a reason.

Answer 7

We can control are natural functions to a point. If we choose to learn how. You can even kill yourself doing this. I once didn't go to the bathroom to excrete for 2 weeks. Another couple of days and I probably would have managed to do myself in. If it wasn't for my roommates saying they would tell on me I would have never went. Glad I got past that part of my life.

No we are not slaves to nature. There is not a natural function we can not control by some means. Either outward or inward means , but the means is there. There is no excuse for what we choose to do , we have the ability to control ourselves. If only we bother to learn how. There is even a medication that the government has tested that allows you to go without sleep for as long as need be and never suffer any side effect.

As for limitations. We set those ourselves. Look at the current genius in theoretical physics. He is bound by a wheel chair and has to speak through a computer. Does he let that stop him. No.

Our abilities. We can constantly improve those. Even if we are the worst at something now. Doesn't mean we can't be the best at something later. In Piers Anthonie's Autobiography he stated how he had no ability in English or writing in school. Yet now he is one of the best Fantasy writers there is.

Sorry , I keep having to edit this so as to look at the details to the question for guidelines.

Weakness. Weakness can be overcome. You can take a self defense course. You can learn a better set of morals. There are many weaknesses that we perceive in ourselves and many ways to overcome them.

Answer 8

My Grandma was president of the wives club in the time of the Vietnam war. She was good friends with a woman who wrote a book called "The Seventh Viel". This woman ran a Christian orphanage, and taught the children about Jesus. She did not force them to believe as she did, but she taught them and let them choose. When the communists took over China, the soldiers came and took away every boy child over the age of 11 and forced them to join their military. As they marched those children away from her, two of them sang "Amazing Grace". The soldiers shot them both. In your argument, you would say the boys didn't have that choice, but they did. They chose to die. If two little boys can choose to do what's right on pain of death, you can choose to do right even though your nature makes it difficult.

Answer 9

If you are not saved by the Lord Jesus Christ, then you are a slave to sin, not to nature.


What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” They answered Him, “We are Abraham’s descendants, and have never been in bondage to anyone. How can You say, ‘You will be made free’?” Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed. John 8:31-36 (New King James Version)

Answer 10

As a Christian, I have a choice to make everyday, all day. Will I do it my way, or God's way. He knows it's in my will to love, follow and serve Him. But he also knows I am human. Of course I don't set out to sin - but when I do - I ask forgiveness.
He is a loving and merciful Father