If you can get re-instated...as many times as it takes, How is the 7X70 possable if the Elders will not let you be an active member of the congregation until you prove to them that you are actually repentant?
Fess up Witnesses we all know that it takes on the average of++++ one full Year+++++++ for a disfellowshipped publisher to prove that they are repentant.
2007-09-03 16:41:16 · 11 answers · asked by Anonymous in Society & Culture ➔ Religion & Spirituality
JR......Back up your answer with Scriptural proof...that you have to demonstrate to your Brothers by pennance? ..WHERE in the BIBLE is that? Shoe me..I am curious?
2007-09-03 16:53:02 · update #1
Keiichi....Look at your own quote.....David accepted dicipline from God.....Who are the elders to go above the lasw of forgiveness laid out by God, and force someone to prove to them for a YEAR that they are really sorry.
2007-09-04 03:04:53 · update #2
And what of the fact that Jesus was speaking about a person who has personally offended you? Are the elders PERSONALLY offended when someone allegedly sins?
No! If anyone is personally offended, it would be God, since it's His law that gets violated when we sin. And guess what? God's forgiveness supercedes 70x7!
1 John 1:9 tells us exactly what we have to do when we sin and exactly what God's response is.
The thing is that we truly have to repent of said sin. We're not supposed to return to doing the same thing once forgiven. Jesus told the woman caught in adultery to go her way and SIN NO MORE. Now, tell me, how would the elders really know if someone has truly repented, if they are more careful about getting caught the next time?
On the other hand, God knows if we are sincere and there is nothing being done in secret that is a secret to Him. We can fool man, but we cannot fool Him. Therefore, is He not the best judge to determine whether someone's repentance is genuine?
2007-09-04 07:56:27 · answer #1 · answered by Simon Peter 5 · 2⤊ 2⤋
That whole reporting-to-the-elders business has always ticked me off. Who made them judge and jury? Can they read the heart and KNOW if there is true repentance?
This is why I became Catholic (just my own personal input here). With the Church, repentance is between you and God. I don't have to prove anything to anyone because they are sinners just like I am, even the priests. If I want back into the Church, all I have to do is repent and give a good confession (which is private and anonymous) and I'm done.
God is my judge, not any man.
God bless.
2007-09-03 17:23:57 · answer #2 · answered by Danny H 6 · 3⤊ 3⤋
The account in 2nd chapter of 2nd Corinthians shows that each congregation has the right to extend forgiveness as well as the right not to extend forgiveness.
Paul did not command them as an apostle to receive the man back, he merely appealed to them as a brother that they ought to do so for Christ's sake. We are not told whether the Corinthians listened to Paul and accepted the man back.
Paul's example shows it is up to the congregation if and when a person is taken back.
When David was forced to flee the throne, he accepted it as discipline from God. (See 2 Samuel 16:11-12) The person that has been disfellowshiped needs to ask themselfs are they willing to humble themselfs and accept the terms the congregation has laid out for them to return?
Note: One must accept responsibility for their own situation. King David once committed an awful sin when he had an adulterous relationship with Bathsheba, and even had her husband killed. When Jehovah's prophet confronted David, he confessed to the crimes and God mercifully extended him a pardon and did not have him put to death, as the law stipulated must be done to adulterers and murderers.
BUT, Jehovah did not shield David from experiencing heartache and humiliation for his sin for the rest of his life. As an indirect consequence of his sin, Jehovah allowed David's son, Absalom, to usurp the throne and publicly violate David's concubines on the palace rooftop.
While you may be assured that God has forgiven you it is still up to the Elders that were given authority by Jesus own disciples to publicly take one back.
2007-09-04 03:02:03 · answer #3 · answered by keiichi 6 · 2⤊ 2⤋
Acts 26:20 but both to those in Damascus first and to those in Jerusalem, and over all the country of Ju·de′a, and to the nations I went bringing the message that they should repent and turn to God by doing works that befit repentance.
2 Cor 7:8 Hence even if I saddened YOU by my letter, I do not regret it. Even if I did at first regret it, (I see that that letter saddened YOU, though but for a little while,) 9 now I rejoice, not because YOU were just saddened, but because YOU were saddened into repenting; for YOU were saddened in a godly way, that YOU might suffer no damage in anything due to us. 10 For sadness in a godly way makes for repentance to salvation that is not to be regretted; but the sadness of the world produces death. 11 For, look! this very thing, YOUR being saddened in a godly way, what a great earnestness it produced in YOU, yes, clearing of yourselves, yes, indignation, yes, fear, yes, longing, yes, zeal, yes, righting of the wrong! In every respect YOU demonstrated yourselves to be chaste in this matter.
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2007-09-03 17:25:07 · answer #4 · answered by TeeM 7 · 2⤊ 1⤋
How is 7X70 even possible? Well not everyone has to forgive that many times. It only takes a certain amount of times based on the situation. What is possible is bring reinstated back into the congregation. God forgives anyone who is truly repentant, and you have it prove by action that you are, since your fellow believers are watching.
2 Corinthians 2:6-11
6The punishment inflicted on him by the majority is sufficient for him. 7Now instead, you ought to forgive and comfort him, so that he will not be overwhelmed by excessive sorrow. 8I urge you, therefore, to reaffirm your love for him. 9The reason I wrote you was to see if you would stand the test and be obedient in everything. 10If you forgive anyone, I also forgive him. And what I have forgiven—if there was anything to forgive—I have forgiven in the sight of Christ for your sake, 11in order that Satan might not outwit us. For we are not unaware of his schemes.
As you can see, Paul didn't reinstate this sinner after being disfellowshipped, he gave him to prove he was obedient.
2007-09-03 16:50:31 · answer #5 · answered by VMO 4 · 2⤊ 3⤋
Wow, this anti-JW actually ADMITS SHE BLOCKS the #1 JW on Yahoo Answers. If that JW really lies, share the proof. His answers sure ring true to me, and I'm not even a JW (yet). I guess the anti-JWs don't like inconvenent answers interfering with thier pity party trash talk.
http://answers.yahoo.com/my/profile;_ylt=?show=26EFlW6Faa
http://answers.yahoo.com/my/profile;_ylt=?show=AA10055448
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070903160832AAmunaU
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070902062223AAxMquo
I'm going to add that to every JW question by this girl, so thanks for the hobby. Now she'll ban me too I bet.
Well, my wife's family has alot of JWs and propaply 12 of them have been disfellowshipped in the last 10 years. The ones who wanted to come back were reinstated in 3 or 4 months. A few are still out, so maybe that year average is accurate accross all disfellowships.
Once you start to FEEL repentent, it doesn't take a whole year to show it. The problem is that it usually takes six months before you stop fornicating and THEN start to feel repentent. Maybe a couple more months before you stop going to clubs every night and get yourself to the Kingdom Hall meetings.
2007-09-04 09:54:21 · answer #6 · answered by Al 3 · 3⤊ 4⤋
I'm waiting for parts three four and five. hehehe
Hope they're not related to this one or the last one - love the diversity.
God is the Heart know-er - Only God knows a person's heart. Not a bunch of deceived and self-deceived pharisaical "elders".
*__--Here Jesus His-self blasts this condition by the followers of the Watchtower allowing their own enslavement. --__*
Luke 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.
More:
Psalms 44:21 Shall not God search this out? for he knoweth the secrets of the heart.
Chronicles 28:9 And thou, Solomon my son, know thou the God of thy father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a willing mind: for the LORD searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts: if thou seek him, he will be found of thee; but if thou forsake him, he will cast thee off for ever.
_____
Is not these lines of Chronicles 28:9 a beautiful promise; "if thou seek him, he will be found of thee;?
2007-09-04 14:30:57 · answer #7 · answered by ander 4 · 3⤊ 1⤋
Matthew 18:21-22 has nothing to do with 1 Corinthians 5:13. That must be why you call this a dumb question. Part 2.
Hannah J Paul
2007-09-04 01:01:31 · answer #8 · answered by Hannah J Paul 7 · 4⤊ 4⤋
It isnt possible unless your name is Enoch, Adam or Methusaleh. Wait a minute. Enoch isnt old enough to achieve the benefit of being reinstated.
2007-09-04 01:22:34 · answer #9 · answered by Buzz s 6 · 1⤊ 1⤋
Why do you follow a religion which can kick you out and make you beg for re-entry??
Do you truly believe god is like that?? or is it man's control over others?
2007-09-03 18:32:48 · answer #10 · answered by Anonymous · 4⤊ 3⤋