Muslims & Jews - why don't we stop arguing and use this site for positive dialogue?

Question

All we ever seem to do is fight - and while some of these questions and answers are really interesting and informative, enough already...!!

Why don't we use this forum for a more positive dialogue? Muslims: accept that Israel has a right to exist!
Jews: accept that the Muslims who lived in Palestine have had a terrible time!

How about we try and think of realistic ways to move forward?

EU CITIZEN - yes, you are right, and I will make the change: the Palestinians do need their own state and they should have it. Londoner In Israel: you make some excellent points. I'm glad there are a few encouraging and positive responses! Let's hope there are a few more - and that this can be the start of a dialogue between us all!

WORLDLUV: cheers! Though we'll have to agree to disagree on apartheid happening in Israel - I've lived out there and it doesn't happen. Israeli Muslims and Arabs sit in parliament and have precisely the same rights as Jewish citizens.

IVRI: I do recognise those facts. What do you mean by 'you and your friends'???

Answer 1

To me... I am not from that area...I have little knowledge on anything about Muslims. or whoever, but got me thinking.
All those places, Jerusalem, Israel...
They are the most holy/sacred land, that is where Jesus walked the earth, but yet, it's the place where there is most violence/all the innocent lives being destroyed/innocent lives being killed. It is really scary, when you actually think about it.

Answer 2

Im open for that. I am arabic not muslim though i will opt for your peace treaty of sorts.

Although I will change the condition abit how about change the secound condition for palestinians have had a terrible time to palestinians deserve to have their pre 1967 borders back and that palestinians (as a people and country) have a right to exist.

People on here are often just saying there is no such thing as palestinians but they are a just jordanians or Egyptians. If thats what you think then talk to a palestinian and they will set you right.

Also i wish there would be less rascism like sayingn Islam is a relegion of hate and is akin to anarchism or something like.

That is simply not true and an exaggeration.

Now i accept that israel has a right to exist (always have), i accept israel has a righ to defend iself and that israeli's are here to stay in Israel/palestine (whatever you wanna call it) for better or for worse and hostility in the form of exclussion and attempted invasion's is the wrong way to go.

there is much more to say but i will leave that for onother time.

"edit" ya i think you have soemthing going there with the diolouge thing. We should discuss possible soloutions with as less rhetoric as we can. Lets not keep the "my god is better then your god" thing going.

"edit" michael thats the type of attitude that is counter productive yes the palestinians are a people, they have been living in that long with the jews before they left and became dispora.Israel/palestine is just as much there homeland as it is an israeli's. and lets not fight over what happend a few thousand years ago ok.? Just to tell you alot of jews have very little "Semitic blood" racially speaking europe is more of there homeland based because most jews of today are not the originals that lived in ancient israel/palestine they are european converts or have very little jewish blood because it has been diluted so much over generations.But Lets not live like it is yesterday. Lets look forward not backward ok?

Also Just because you interpret a passage of your bible as saying muslims live by the sword and Israel/Palestine is just for the jews and the jews only to have is no excuse for closing diologue on an very important issue..

You can't say to palestinians go live in some other muslim country. What if some Muslims established a country in the UK lets say and alot of people where displaced that where living in that area before.

The Muslims who made the new country told the brits "go live in one of the many european/christian countries this is our land go promised it to us!

Do you think the brit would accept that? no they wouldnt and i dont think that the palestinians have to accept that either.

Answer 3

Tabatha - great post. Slinging hash back and forth is not only unproductive but encourages continued hatred and racism. So I agree, let's ALL focus on what we want - peace and justice for everyone.

How do we do that? One thing that will help is if everybody pushes for international laws to be followed by ALL countries. For some strange reason, Israel is allowed to break them regularly without repercussion and I don't care who breaks them, there needs to be an outcry that it's not okay-- every time and for every group.

I'm really tired of wars and terrorism. The focus is too much on 'attack' and 'retaliation' and even 'defense' - if people are treated with respect and fairness, there would be no need to 'defend'.

In addition to everyone following international laws, I suggest a 'Truth and Reconcilliation Commission' as was used in South Africa immediately upon post-apartheid. There is definitely apartheid alive and well in Palestine/Israel and perhaps this is a way for people to forgive and move past all the pain. (This would of course have to be after the state issue is resolved and I agree with some of the others - let both sides live on that land).

An important note - seems that many are misinformed and believe that all Arabs are Muslim. There used to be a majority of Christians in Palestine that has been diminishing greatly over the years (mostly because of emigration). Now they are less than 2% but they're definitely there and working hard at being peaceful. There's a much larger percentage of Christians in Jordan (although still a minorty) and I know there are Christians in many other Arab countries but do not know the proportion.

EDIT: Tabatha, I agree - Arabs living in Israel do indeed have the same rights. I should've been clearer - apartheid is happening within the Palestinian Territories (West Bank and Gaza). Even Desmond Tutu refers to it as this. The Arabs there have different coloured license plates to show that there are many roads within the Territories they are not allowed to drive, but the Israeli citizens can. There is also restriction of movement and although there are many permanent checkpoints, there are also loads of temporary ones that appear and disappear and it is up to the whim of the Israeli soldiers as to whether Arabs can pass or not. Then there is the wall that has been erected, great chunks of it are INSIDE the 1967 borders and Palestinians have lost more land (this is against international laws). Furthermore, according to Amnesty International, there are some 800 Palestinians held in detention WITHOUT charges or a trial. I could go on but the point is, ALL people should have rights - Jews, Arabs, everyone - and they should have the same rights and be able to live in peace and in a just environment. I am not pro-Arab nor pro-Jew, I'm pro-peace and justice.

Answer 4

Tabatha, you may recall that those Arabs who lived in the small part of what was once Palestine -- and has become Israel -- and stayed put, are now full citizens in the most advanced and democratic country in the Middle East.

Those Arabs who remained in what was to have been a Palestinian Arab state continue to be exploited by their fellow Arabs. Who never permitted such a state to come into being.

Once you and your friends realize that, and concede that Israel IS REAL, then we can get somewhere.

Meanwhile, please note that the reason for the conflict between Israel and the Arabs is that the Arabs, plain and simple, refuse to accept a Jewish state in their midst. They invented this whole idea of a "Palestinian people who deserve a state" just to use as a tool to dismember Israel.

Arab violence against Jews has been going on long before there was an occupation, long before there was a refugee problem--indeed, long before there was a political Zionist movement. Need I present more painful examples? Perhaps even further back, where I hope everyone will agree that the Zionist movement did not yet come into being:

In the centuries after Muhammad there have been periods when the Jews were able to live in relative peace under Arabs, but their position was never secure. They were generally viewed with contempt by their Arab neighbors, and their survival was always predicated on their abject subordination and degradation to them. Mass murders of Jewish "protected people" started in Morocco as early as the eighth century, where Idris I wiped out whole communities. A century later Baghdad's Caliph al-Mutawakkil designated a yellow badge for Jews (setting a precedent that would be followed centuries later in Nazi Germany), and synagogues were destroyed throughout Mesopotamia in 854-859. In Tripolitania, Jews were considered the property of their Arab masters, who would bequeath the Jews to their heirs upon death. In the 12th century, after anti-Jewish riots, the contemporaries commented that their population had 'greatly declined.'

As to how to solve the problem, the only way would be for Israel to defeat the Arabs overwhelmingly, and then dictate the terms for peace. Otherwise, the Arabs will never stop trying to destroy Israel.

Answer 5

Muhammad became an Arab/Ishmaelite in accordance to Islam Muhammad became a human final prophet Muslims believe Muhammad became chosen by way of God to supply the Qu'ran scripture in accordance to Islam, Jesus became the Jewish messiah who fulfilled God's promise

Answer 6

In a perfect world there would be no conflict. This is not and will never be a perfect world. Like it or not.

I agree that Palestine needs to be recognized and that they need their own country, however they also need to be able to govern themselves and stop the terrorists from attacking Israel from their land.

Israel will never be accepted as a country by Muslims. The Koran, and I have read the Koran thinks that all non Muslims are infidels. This is written and can't be denied.

If Muslims, like some of the people that answered your question, truly believe that Israel should exist, why don't they come out against terrorists attacks? Muslim groups like CAIR and ISNA have not come out against any terrorist attacks in a public way. How about some Muslim groups going on TV in their homelands (Syria, Egypt, Saudia Arabia, Iran) and stating that Israel has a right to exists and that they condem terrorists attacks!

It is easy to say that they are against terrorism and that they believe Israel should exists but they do not make it public. Why is that. When the insane fascist rule of Iran said that Israel should be wiped off the map, more than once. Not one government in the middleeast denounced him. Not one Muslim group denounced him.

My question is WHY?

Until the Muslim people and their leaders as a whole stand up and denounce terrorism and state that Israel has the right to exist, I will not believe them because it is nothing but talk and talk is cheap!

Answer 7

I don't think the arguing can be halted that easily. But what can stop is the following:

* Deliberately lumping Israeli issues with world wide Judaism.

* Using the term, Zionism, as if it were an insult.

* Discussing the problem as a Jewish conspiracy.

* Portraying Israel as if it were as totalitarian as the Arab countries.

* Setting the 1967 borders issue as a precondition for negotiations.

* Asserting the homicide bombers are the moral equivalent of Israeli actions to defend itself.

Answer 8

OK, I have a proposal:

As a Muslim, I DO accept that Israel has a right to exist, and so do most other Muslims. The distortion of the media only shows one side of the story, always making Muslims look like the culprits, and giving the impression that all Muslims are fanatics and believe that Israel should not exist. That is an absurd thought and cruel to mankind. Of course Israel should exist and has the right to.

As for what you proposed concerning Jews, I would say that is quite bias. All they have to do is "acknowledge" something that happened. That is like giving something for nothing.

Also, if Jews could stop lying about Islam and Muslims, that would be great. For example, in one of your answers, you claimed that Muslims are to kill Jews wherever we find them. What an obnoxious, desperate lie. Your source was probably from a hate site. Whatever it was it was taken out of context, and what you said was simply not true. I can take a few words from any book and make it sound evil, it really isn't that hard. I've also seen countless, ruthless attacks and, not surprisingly, lies, against Islam by the Jews in this section. I would appreciate if you would stop the lies and misleading people as the western media, which is owned by Zionists, is already doing. It is tarnishing the image of true Islam, and I never knew so many people in this section could do the same. And then there are people like Michael z, who agrees with you, but then hypocritically and ignorantly attacks the opposing side.

You propose this "treaty", yet you are actively involved in this fighting as well...what is your true purpose? Our prophet proposed numerous treaties with the Jewish tribes, and he was always kind to them. BUT, many broke the treaties and attacked him, leaving him no choice but to fight back. There are often verses taken out of context that actually referred to this, that are used to serve their own purpose, such as what you did with that verse you proclaimed. I have already exposed you in a dirty lie. Is your intention really to do what you ask?


DYTRADE:

You are another liar. Based on what you said, you obviously have not read the Qu'ran. Why is a Gentile considered a non-Jew and all is fine, but if an "infidel" is considered a non-Muslim, then there is a big deal? Double standard? Bias? Ignorance? Falling for the media's lies? A combination thereof? We are NEVER ordered to kill ANY innocent person. However, if a person is invading your country attempting to thrash you and steal your land, I wouldn't consider them to be innocent. The Zionist media still insists they are, though. I wonder why...

Of course we speak out! Your media suppresses us, though. Boy, it's even got you fooled! I made a blog dedicated to speaking out against terrorism and condeming every bit of it. It is unislamic, and gives the rest of the Muslims a bad name. What don't you understand? Zionists own the media, so they will put whatever satisfies tehir beliefs and views, even if it means lying and humiliating the other side. Why would a Zionist media ever report a Muslim(s) denouncing terrorism? It may make people change their corrupted ignorant views on Islam, and the Zionists sure can't afford that!

Mikeln:

First, my name is "Omer". Second, I totally appreciate Tabatha's proposal! But it is mortally flawed, blatently favoring Israeli interests. I am not saying I do not want peace--I absolutely want peace between Israelis/Arabs ((Jews/Muslims) Yes I am aware that not all Israelis are Jewish and not all Arabs are Muslim)). I absolutely believe and WANT Israel to exist. You can't impose a few peoples' beliefs on everyone of that group. Many people generalize here on Yahoo! Answers and, although I know you have good intentions, you are no exception. Good luck!!!

Answer 9

Tabatha - count me in.

EuCitizen - I agree with everything you have said, with the one slight modification that the 1967 line should be viewed as a benchmark for what would constitute a fair settlement, but the final border will likely be a modified version of it, so that as few people as possible have to abandon their homes. Any such modifications would need to be done in such a way that they would be fair to both sides.

Michael Z - we are supposed to prepare the way for the coming of the messiah, not simply wait for him to show up. We must begin to tackle these issues ourselves. Jerusalem is holy to Muslims, as well as to Jews and Christians.

Answer 10

It is socially unacceptable for Muslim huddling Afrabs to tolerate Jews