“And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints” (Rev. 5:8)
"And another angel came and stood at the altar with a gold censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God." (Rev. 8:3-4)
2007-09-01 06:44:05 · 29 answers · asked by Anonymous in Society & Culture ➔ Religion & Spirituality
Revelation does contain a lot of symbolism, but not everything in Revelation is symbolic. The verses that I gave are straight foward.
2007-09-01 06:53:43 · update #1
Please do not feed the animals. Don't spit into the wind and don't show fundamentalists the parts in the Bible that might make them less fundamental.
2007-09-01 11:52:15 · answer #1 · answered by Isolde 7 · 0⤊ 0⤋
Rev 5:8 ¶ And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four [and] twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
Rev 8:3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer [it] with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.
Rev 8:4 And the smoke of the incense, [which came] with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.
So? What's your point? Why would they protest? I'm a Fundamentalist and I'm not protesting.
EDITED for Parrot......God forgives all sins but one. Sin is sin to God unless you blaspheme the Holy Spirit,,,that is not forgivable......you are no better than an Axe murderer if you life is filled with sin...all sin separates us from God. God doesn't think the way we do about sin...We think child molesters and Axe murderers are worse than we are, but God say no,,,,all sin will keep you out of Heaven...unless you repent and have your sins forgiven....an ex-Axe Murderer will make it to Heaven before you will....if he ask for forgiveness and is saved....
2007-09-01 13:57:16 · answer #2 · answered by dreamdress2 6 · 1⤊ 0⤋
I'm not Catholic, but take no offense to these verses as a Christian. I too believe in the saints...in fact, the Bible says that you and I too are saints. If I have a problem with the Catholic church it is that it places a disproportionate amount of emphasis on the saints. Walking into the Vatican for example, it is extremely hard to find anything representing Christ amidst all the statues of the saints!!
Another problem I have is with respect to some of the other doctrines that are so contrary to Scripture. Jesus says He is the only way to salvation. Yet consider Vatican II doctrine in which Catholicism claims that Muslims are saved!
Second Vatican Council, Lumen Gentium 16, November 21, 1964: “…The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day…”
2007-09-01 13:59:41 · answer #3 · answered by whitehorse456 5 · 1⤊ 0⤋
I certainly don't protest these verses ! After the seals are broken and before some bad, awful stuff happens on the earth (trumpets and bowls, 7 each; plus a couple of woes) - GOD gets praised and glorified. As well He should. There comes a time in God the Father's wrath, when it's so terrible "no one" can get near the Throne (later in the same book btw).
And, of course, before Jesus opened the seals; there was great anguish in heaven as NO ONE was worthy to do it !!! So, there should be a time of celebration.
There will be another time of celebration later; when 'we all' in heaven (don't imagine the mockers and unbelievers will be there, well, maybe as silent waiters...hmmmm). I do have one fantasy: a man who did me wrong in this world has to be my golf caddy, he isn't allowed to speak or to play. What an exquisite punishment, huh !
But, I digress. "We" get to feast on the delicious meat of one of the beasts, that has been killed and grilled for us. Yummmmm
Maranantha
2007-09-01 14:17:00 · answer #4 · answered by Bill S 4 · 0⤊ 0⤋
That cracks me up. Not the verses but the fundamentalist reaction. I'd say it's because they mention saints and since two denominations that some of them can't stand, the Roman Catholics and Episcopalians, include saints and incense as well in their churches, they have a cow (but not a golden one) about it. I like to point those out every time someone tells me there aren't any saints in the Bible.
2007-09-01 13:52:24 · answer #5 · answered by Purdey EP 7 · 1⤊ 1⤋
what point are you trying to make when you quote them? Your question lacks direction. Most would say it is a book full of rich symbolysim or that it was a vision or even an allegory. But, even if it was literal what do you conclude its purpose is or what do you derive from it?
I see twelve leaders of the tribes and perhaps the disciples falling before Jesus and worshiping. I see angels and wondrous creatures acting as priests and making the prayers of the saints pleasing to God.
2007-09-01 14:03:57 · answer #6 · answered by crimthann69 6 · 2⤊ 0⤋
Are you trying to justify praying to angels and saints?
The answer is first about angels, they are ministering spirit gone forth to minister for men. They are simply servants to Jesus. it is still prayers presented to the Father through the name of Jesus that will be considered.
As far as saints: Every single born again christian is a saint right her on the face of the earth, not select people that have already died,so the prayers of the saints are the prayers said by people on the face of the earth.
2007-09-01 13:54:22 · answer #7 · answered by allan b 5 · 3⤊ 0⤋
I have no idea. I'm a "fundementalist" (if by that you mean someone who believes the Bible literally) and I have no problem with those verses.
I do think it's important to recognize that alot of Revelation is written in a symbolic style. To understand what the symbolism means, the book of Revelation must be interpreted in the context of the entire Bible and what that symbol means elsewhere in the Bible.
Perhaps it isn't the verses that they disagree with, but some particular point you're trying to make with them?
2007-09-01 13:49:15 · answer #8 · answered by Amaris 2 · 7⤊ 1⤋
I amm what many will call a Fundamentalist Christain, and Rev. 5:8 and 8:3-4 causes me no concern..why should it?
2007-09-01 14:05:06 · answer #9 · answered by Anonymous · 2⤊ 0⤋
As a person that believes every word of the Bible as inspired - I have no problem with any verses. I don't understand your point - chapter eight and chapter 5 are different and the language is symbolic.
2007-09-01 13:54:52 · answer #10 · answered by Brian 5 · 0⤊ 1⤋
SILLY.... RABBIT... TRICKS.... ARE... FOR... KIDS...!
YOU... ASSUME... FACTS... NOT... IN... EVIDENCE!
What you mistakenly call..." Fundamentalists ".... WITHOUT A DEFINITION OF FUNDAMENTALISM... is Nothing More... THAN... TRICKERY... AND ... DUPLICITY!
Those verses... are Only VALIDATED... BY... THESE.....!
(Revelation 20:12-to-15) And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
(Rev 20:13) And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
(Rev 20:14) And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
(Rev 20:15) And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
IS ' your ' NAME.... in the Lambs Book of Life ? ? ?
Mine IS....!
SILLY.... RABBIT... TRICKS.... ARE... FOR... KIDS...!
Thanks, RR
2007-09-01 14:12:55 · answer #11 · answered by Anonymous · 0⤊ 0⤋