Former spouses and military retirement pay........?

Question

Opinions please...What do you think of this BS law and why?

*My opinion: This law is the biggest bunch of bulls**t I've ever heard of! I don't care what a soldier or marine or whatever has done, nothing justifies taking half of their retirement pay! WE are the ones that fought the wars. WE are the ones that go to the field problems. WE are the ones that work endless hours. WE are the ones that have to put up with all the BS that comes with being in the military. WE are the ones that have to abide by not ONE, but TWO justice systems. WE are the ones getting put through all this, and no matter what happens between a husband and wife, I think someone's hard-earned retirement should have NOTHING to do with it!!!! When a civilian wife gets beat by her civilian husband or when a civilian wife leaves her civilian husband for his best friend, they're not entitled to half of their social security, so why should the military be any different?

I'm active duty army, and so is my husband by the way. No matter what he did for us to get divorced, I would never touched the retirement he's bled for, and cried for, and lost friends for, and worked so hard for. Our marriage has nothing to do with the fine service he's done for his country. Same goes the other way, too.

Andrea, as a soldier, I also suffer through being separated from my family and living on low income, and moving constantly. Difference is, when we're going through all this stuff, we're also trying to keep out butts alive, and we can't fly out to our mom's house or our sisters house to get some comfort. We can't lie in bed all day crying because it's so hard. We still have a job to do, and no matter how hard it is for us, how long we work for (i.e. my 16 hour days from 6pm to 10am in Iraq right now) for very little pay, we still go through all those same emotions, with one big difference, being that we are in a warzone. I don't doubt the mlitary wife role is hard, I'm just saying that it shouldn't be a reason to take the retirement WE worked so hard for.

What if its the other way around? What if the soldier is the victim, i.e. the soldier deploys, the spouse cheats, the wife (who chose to never work a day in her life) is out and about getting drunk, leaves the kids at home alone overnight, kids play with matches, house burns down, soldier comes home to a burnt down house, kid injured from house fire because she was too busy getting laid somewhere, b***h spent all the money on her boyfriends and partying. He divorces her, she gets 30% of his retirement.....Is that fair???

Just FYI, I AM married to a military member as well. I am his support, even though I'm also here, I can't physically send him care packages, so I order them online for him. I email him every chance I get. I, too, have to go through my nights by myself, hoping he's ok. I, too, had to watch the kids by myself, when he had to go to the field. I take care of paying the bills, we split the house chores, and we both go to school, so yes, I know what it's like to be a military spouse as well, and it doesn't compare to the service members side of it. He outranks me so I have to follow him, same as a civilian wife following her military husband.

Answer 1

I think if your a "FORMER SPOUSE" your done with anything the soldier or retired soldier is bringing in. If you chose to leave him then youve left him. You dont want anything to do with him besides the money then your pretty pathetic.

Answer 2

I see both sides of this issue. However; I think that since you have to be married for ten years and then divorce in order to collect half the retirement pay, then it's fair. Ten years is above the average number of years for a divorce to occur; so it shows you've put effort into making the relationship work. A civilian spouse can collect on their spouses retirement pay. Yes, the one in the Military might be the one doing the field problems and the one deployed, etc., etc. but they signed on the dotted line and chose to become a Military member, so I would assume they expected those things to occur. The spouse of that Soldier is living under the Military thumb as well, only without having signed a contract. A lot of wives have no idea what they're getting into when they marry a Military member. It's a complete shock to some of them; especially if they have never met anyone in the Military before. They move....often, because of their spouses career. Raising of children is primarily done by them alone. There is a lot of discrimination toward Military spouses in the civilian work force. A lot of companies avoid hiring them because they move so often; therefore building a solid career in which to support themselves and their children (if they have them) if a divorce comes about is extremely hard to achieve. I know a lot of women who have a college education but have difficulties building a good career because of their spouses choice to serve in the Military. Of course if they asked the spouse to get out so they could have more stability and work on building a career for themselves then there would be those who saw that person as "selfish" for asking their spouse to give up the Military and would be pegged as an "unsupportive wife". So, if she chooses to stay and be supportive and he decides when he comes home to leave her for the new female Soldier he met while deployed she's left with nothing. She now has to figure out how to care for their children on a job on Post that doesn't begin to cover the bills, find a place to live (because he of course asked her to leave the house and he doesn't want the kids, either), find new child care, etc. (I know someone in this situation) Is it fair to punish her when she didn't see this coming from a mile away? She was doing everything right and he decided to screw her and their kids over. Either way the spouse looses, so I don't see it as a horrible injustice to the Military member to compensate the spouse that put up with just as much crap for at least ten years.

Answer 3

First of all, for a former spouse to be entitled to retirement pay, they would have to of been married for a certain amount of time...ten years I believe. While I agree the military member works thier behinds off, faces risks and sacrfices I also know that a ten year military wife has also worked hard supporting her spouse, worried, given up many things and, more often than not, was as dedicated to the military as her (or his) military spouse. Yes, there are cases where the wife has done the leaving, but the military recognizes the sacrifices these women have made. That being said, the majority of military wives do not see the retirement pay of the divorced spouse for the simple reason most remarry. As soon as she remarrys, she looses any claim to the retirement just as she would loose any spousal support. I do feel that the amount the wife is awarded should be at the pay grade her spouse was at when the marriage ended. If the marriage ended after 10 years and her husband was an E6 at the time, I don't believe she should get half of his E8 retirement pay...she was not there for the last ranks.

And while no divorced spouse gets part of her exes social security check, it is not unusal for spouses to get part of their exes retirement account/401K, especially if she did not work during the marriage and supported his career. Retirement accounts are often judge community property. As the majority of military wives do not work (or work in part time jobs, not in careers and/or have not been in any job long enough to accumulate retirement benefits while her spouse was serving), the husbands benefits are usually seen in this way (again, unless she remarries).

Answer 4

I can see your side to a point. But you keep saying we, we, we, meaning the soldier. THat is just one person and in a relationship, it takes 2 people. I believe that there should be certain circumstances where things should be looked at. If the wife is cheating and having babies by someone, then yes something needs to be done with that and she shouldn't get a portion of his pay.

But as a military spouse, they sit and wait for their soldier, they keep the house, they cook his food, some wash his clothes. We do alot to keep him going. When he is deployed, we are the ones sending care packages and supporting him while he is gone. We are their sounding block and venting machine when he has to talk about something that he can't talk about with those he works with (this way he gets it off of his shoulders and can still function and do his job in the way he is suppose to).

I have helped my husband with boards, have gotten his uniforms to the cleaners to be pressed and cleaned when he surely didnt have the time to do that. I have held parties for him and soldiers that keep morale up.

I move around with him where ever he is stationed to. I am on my 3rd college (and hopefully last because they choose to move us sooner than expected). I have to give up almost as much as he has. I am giving up things also.

I am in no way saying or will I ever say that I have it harder than my husband. I know where he is and i know what he is doing. I know the constant fear he is living in and to a point I also live in that fear with him without the bullets. I don't fear losing the money but I fear in losing him for he is my support and my heart and my childrens father. I fear losing what we are when were together. We have been married 12 1/2 years and we were married before he went into the service so I have been there every step of the way with him.

Through all of his dissapointments and truimphs and hopefully I will be with him until the end of his career and the beginning of the next.

But to say that it is wrong that we get nothing, is also wrong. Most spouses help their husband progress to some point. And you say that the miltiary should be no different than the civilian world. Well think about it, the military is different than the civilian world.

We have a different way of living, a different way of thinking, and a different way of acting. We are different than civilians both the military spouse and the military member. We (meaning soldiers and spouses) have to deal with different things every day that civilians don't and never will have to deal with.

These laws were enacted so that the military spouse who has supported and helped her husband in the military get the short end of the stick because he decided to divorce her a few months before he retired and left her with nothing. Or maybe he has some woman on the side and wants to divorce his wife before he retires and marry the new one. Should that be fair. No the wife should get something, this is why the law. And yes I feel that sometimes the soldier gets the raw end of the stick but sometimes so does the spouse. Not every law is full proof.

But there should be some protection for us also. My husband and I both agreed that I would stay home wtih the children while they are young and not in school. My youngest started preschool and i went to school myself. Yes I will soon have a job after college but should that disqualify me from some of his retirement, no it shouldn't.

You say nothing should take half his retirement pay, I don't agree with you on that point. Most of the time the military member doesnt get to where he is by himself. The spouse does help him along the way. Its not being with him at the field problems or along side him during war but sometimes it's the little things that count.

Answer 5

I think your view is one sided. Marriage is not one sided so you have to look at it from both sides. Of course there are some abuses of this law but I think over all it is very fair. As it has been said 10 years is a long time to endure military life. i have currently been married to my sailor for 12 years. He has been deployed on ships and to Iraq with the army in 3 weeks notice. We have 3 young boys and I work hard to be both parents pay the bills keep the house and help them with school. My children and I have sacrificed a lot for our country as has my husband. We have moved all over this world (that's right world) and never lived close to family. I could get a job and I did that once but with my husbands long hours (12-16) easily, it was evident that our marriage and our children couldn't stand it. So I had to quit. I have watched my children cry for their daddy I have been near mental break down from the stress so don't tell me the military spouse doesn't sacrifice enough after 10 years to deserve part of the retirement pay. Have you ever had to write a will or advance directive because there is a real chance you will never see your husband again when he kisses you good bye. When you realy love someone you would rather it be you than them. As for me I hope to never have to worry about see half his retirement because I intend to do what it takes give what it takes and sacrifice to keep my marriage alive.

Answer 6

Im sorry. In the civilian world, ex-wives get a HECK of a lot more money than half a small sized retirement check. And the yget half the husbands retirement to boot!

Military wives give up careers because they have to move around so much and raise kids alone alot of the time so if there is a divorce, what? wifee has the kids and no job, no money or house? forget that. The govt probably put that in place because that was the situation of SO MANY ex wives!
And they got divorced because why did you say? husband hits her or cheats? so yeah wifee should get half retirement AND THEN SOME! And hubby should get a JAIL SENTENCE for hitting her since you referenced that!!

All in all, I DO believe it should be situational and decided by a judge like it is in the civilian world.. but on the flip side, as a military wife with no job and no owned home (but a good husband thankfully!!) if things were to (God forbid!!) go amuck in my marriage and a divorce was necessary...i am glad the law is there to protect the people it was supposed to protect. Its unfortunate that there are people undeserving benefitting from this that obviously dont deserve it.

Answer 7

I totally agree with you.

I work with a girl who is still married to an Army guy (my hubby is AF and deployed) and she has been separated from her husband since 2001 AND has a child with another co-worker. Her HUSBAND wont sign the divorce decree because they've been technically married 13 years and so she wants have his retirement and he does not agree to that since they've been separated for 6 years, so the separated at 7 years (you have to be married 10 years to get half.)

I'm so disgusted with this girl and can't figure out why the coworker she has a baby with (she also has 4 kids with her husband) doesn't be like "why do want his money, am I not good enough?"

I think the whole situation is disgusting.

Answer 8

I am a victim of that law. I outlived my ex and got my pension back. There is a web American Retirees Association that deals with this. There are some real horror stories. The worst I know is the Col that was a pow for 7 years. She met him at Travis with a big kiss. Next day she served him with divorce papers and married her lawyer. There is a retired female officer that is sharing her pension with an ex that is serving a long time in prison. It goes on and on. A friend was in nam for 15 months. His wife gave birth 3 days after he got home. He lost his pension to her>

Answer 9

The retirement pay is not property. You can't deed or convey it to someone else. You can't leave it your heir in a will. It stops when you stop. So, it does not fit the definition of property as set forth in common law or the uniformed commercial code. I'm no lawyer, but I can't figure out how retired pay became "community property" to be divided when it isn't property in the first place. Never mind that the test case for this stupidity was one where the ex-wife had been married to an Army doctor and had spent all but two years of her life living in married officers' quarters at the Presidio of San Francisco. Yeah, she sure followed the flag, didn't she?

Answer 10

I was on active duty when Pat Schroeder pushed through her legislation. I thought it was wrong then and it's still wrong now. There was one case, an active duty officer who chose to turn in his commission prior to retirement rather than giving his ex-wife half his retired pay...and the farce of a judge decided that he owed her what he would have gotten in retirement pay because he ~could~ have stayed in and retired properly.

Here's an article on the history of the legislation, including the (good!) arguments against it: http://ulsg.org/testimony.htm

Answer 11

Civilians are entitled to their spouses retirement pay though.

Why should military retirement pay be treated any different?

Ex Spouses aren't entitled to the SS of a retired military member either, just like the civilians.

Your making a bad comparison.

Your thinking SS is retirement.

It's not, not for civilians, nor retired military.

If you didn't know it, retired military collect SS also.

Civiliams get retirement pay, just like the military does, they just have to work longer to collect it.