Rapture? what do you think?

Question

Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory."
"Where, O death, is your victory?
Where, O death, is your sting?"
The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.
But thanks be to God!
He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Therefore, my dear brothers, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.


The LAST trumpet, that is at the END of the tribulation

1 Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1 Thess 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1 Thess 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1 Thess 4:18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

this verse goes with the other one, but it still all happens at the LAST trumpet

Answer 1

I think rabies can be controlled by inoculating McDonald's bait traps. Whether or not that will cure the run-on rant, I cannot say.

Answer 2

I disagree. First of all, remember that Paul wrote the verses you quoted almost 40 years before Jesus gave the Revelation to John the Apostle. So how could Paul have been referring to the last trumpet judgement?!

Logically, there are several reasons why these two trumpets CANNOT be the same:

1. The trumpet of the church age is called the "trump of God" (1Thessalonians 4:16). The trumpet of Revelation is the trumpet of the seventh angel (Revelation 11:15).

2. The trumpet of the church age is singular. There is no mention of a series of trumpets. The trumpet of Revelation is the seventh of seven. The phrase "last trump" has a different significance, as I'll show you below.

3. In 1 Thessalonians 4, the trumpet calls the dead to life. The seventh trumpet of Revelation occurs AFTER a resurrection occurs (Revelation 11:12).

4. The trumpet of the church age comes as a blessing. The trumpet of Revelation comes with judgment and is called the third woe (Revelation 11:14).

5. The trump of the church age sounds in "a moment, in the twinkling of an eye" (1Corinthians 15:52). The seventh trumpet of Revelation sounds for "days" (Revelation 10:7).

Because of these inconsistencies, it seems obvious that John and Paul are writing about two different events. So where does Paul's reference come from? In Numbers 10:1-10, the Lord gives Moses the laws concerning the use of trumpets. They were used to call the assembly together, to announce the time to begin their journeying, to go to war, and other various purposes. Numbers 10:5-6 tell of the use of the trumpets to command the Israelites to go forward when they were to take their journeys in the wilderness. These verses mention that the camps on the east side go first and the camps on the south side go second. The other camps are not mentioned here, but they are mentioned in Numbers, chapter two.

In Numbers 2, all of the tribes of Israel are placed around the tabernacle in four camps. The order given is east first, south second, Levites and the tabernacle third, west fourth, and north last. As you can see, the first camps of Numbers two match the two camps mentioned in Numbers 10:5-6. The Numbers 10:5-6 passage is obviously an abbreviation for the calling of all the camps to go forward. Although the phrase, last trump, is not mentioned Numbers, the trumpet that sounded to call the last camp (the north camp) to go forward would be the last trump. That would be when everyone in the camp was called to go.

You can see how this picture would be so powerful to the early believers that Paul was writting to. The "last trump" indicated that the entire congregation was now on the move. That is the picture that Paul is using in 1Corinthians 15:52; not a revelation that would not be given for almost 40 years. Just as the last trumpet call in the wilderness meant that the entire congregation was on the move, so the last trump at the time of the rapture will indicate that the entire church of the redeemed is called up: both the living and the dead (1Thessalonians 4:15-16).

Answer 3

2 Thessalonians 2:6-8 "And now ye know what with-holdeth (the restraining ministry of the Holy Spirit) that he (the Antichrist) might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be TAKEN OUT OF THE WAY. And THEN shall the Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming."

The Holy Spirit is omnipresent. He is everywhere! The restraining part of His ministry is in the indwelling of born-again Christians. This passage says that this restraining ministry will be taken out of the way. The Holy Spirit will still be here, because He is the only one who leads a person to Christ.

1 Thessalonians 1:10 "And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come"

What is the wrath to come? The tribulation period.

Jesus' message in Revelation 3:10 was to the end of the church age. ".....I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them which dwell upon the earth."

Jesus said it...not me. He will keep us from going through the tribulation.

If you notice, from Revelation 4:2-19:10 the church is not mentioned one single solitary time. Why? because the body of believers isnt there. In verse 1 of chapter 4 it says "....I will show thee things which must be hereafter."

After what? The Church age.

1 Thessalonians 4:16, 17 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air; and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

A trumpet blast is the way you knew royalty was coming, and also it was to signal a gathering.

The Last trumpet that you are referring to IS at the end of the tribulation. BUT, it is referring to the one before the SECOND COMING of Jesus (which the last trumpet is the last of the woes). There is a lot of people who get the rapture and the second coming confused as one event. The rapture is when we are called UP. The second coming is when He returns to earth. The Bible says that He will come back the same way he left....He ascended from the Mt of Olives, and that is precisely where He will return.

Acts 1:11 ".....this same Jesus which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen Him go into heaven."
Zechariah 14:1 "And His feet shall stand that day upon the mount of Olives...."

Truly saved, born again believers that are alive during this time NOT going to be the "unlucky" Christians that have to go through hell on earth. Do you honestly think that the merciful God we serve will put us through the tribulation just because we happen to be alive at that time?

A born again Christian has hope. What kind of hope would one have knowing that they would have to go through the horendous wrath of God that is to come?

Most Bible scholars agree that the pre-tribulation rapture is fully, biblical backed event that will happen. Regardless of what someone believes, whether it is pre, mid, or post tribulation.....I hope that you are ready! He is coming soon!

God bless.

Answer 4

When its all been said in done there is just one thing that matters. Did you live your life according to Gods will or did you buy into theories, movements, false doctrines, traditions, heresies and religion?

I think we all need to get our nose in the book and study it to find out how we are supposed to live not how we can escape or not. Do you love the gift or the Giver?

This is the love of God that we keep his commandments and they are not burdensome (one-eyed John 5).

That would mean we show love to our brothers and sisters and to our God by keeping his word? You mean keep Torah? Yes my brothers and sisters that's exactly what he wants you to do.

Just a thought...because in the end, if there is a rapture, if your still sinning so that grace may abound, you won't be one that goes.

Repent! The Kingdom of God is at hand!

Answer 5

I dont believe in the rapture
when you think about it ... this was written at a time when people believed that the sky was heaven
we know better now , so why would anyone be taken into the clouds ... when heaven is in another realm ?

this is just one of the problems I have with it

Answer 6

i dont believe too much in this of a coming mainly becuz we really have to answers to live by...with religion being so different now of days what can we believe but i believe that with one small favor towards good we can change much of our future to come..the rapture is when all good things are brought together as to be said..and it as said to come when things got too bad to exist on this planet and the lord himself would know when this time is to come..i dont believe he planned a day or when it would come becuz if he created earth as said i dont think he said i wil make earth on in april and end the making this day just believe what you want but i always look for the better day alive or gone

Answer 7

The Bible says that the rapture happens at the end of the world.

“Another parable put He forth unto them, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, ‘Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? From whence then hath it tares?’ He said unto them, ‘An enemy hath done this.’ The servants said unto him, ‘Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?’ But he said, ‘Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.’’” (Matthew 13:24 – 29 KJV)

Now that is an interesting story, and it can be a little confusing; fortunately, because the disciples found this story a little confusing they also and asked Jesus to explain if further. Because our God is not a God of confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33), Jesus explained what this parable meant.

“Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, ‘Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.’ He answered and said unto them, ‘He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.’” (Matthew 13:36 – 42 KJV)

A closer study of this parable would seem to completely disprove the theory of a secret rapture of the church. Let’s take a look at what Jesus had to say about the time of the end through this parable. There are two groups on the earth represented by the wheat (the good or the church) and the tares (the evil). The workers of the field (probably representing angels) are troubled by the tares that the evil one (the devil) has planted. They ask the farmer (Jesus) if they should gather the weeds now and purify the field (the world). The farmer (Jesus) said that it should not happen that way because some of the wheat may come up with the tares. He then declares, “Let both grow together until the harvest (the end of the world): and in the time of harvest (the end of the world) I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.” I find it hard to be a proponent of a secret rapture for the church when Jesus said that both the good and the evil will grow together until the harvest (the end of the world). How can the church be raptured, leaving the evil on the earth, when Jesus said they will be together until the very end?

There is another issue raised by this parable. Many well intentioned Christians use the story in Matthew 24:40 & 41 and Luke 17:34 – 36 as key proof of a secret rapture for the church, but if we examine this story about the end times with the earlier story Jesus told about the end times in Matthew 13, we get a completely different picture from what most Christians interpret this story to mean. Let’s look at what Jesus said in these verses.

“Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.” (Matthew 24:40 – 42 KJV)

“I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.” (Luke 17:34 – 36 KJV)

Now I do not think that I am wrong in thinking that most Christians interpret these stories to mean that the man taken from the field, the woman that is taken while grinding, and the man taken in his sleep are the ones that belong to the group that is the church and are ruptured. This does not seem to be a plausible explanation however. Jesus gives an order for things to happen back in Matthew 13. “Gather ye together first the tares (the evil), and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat (the good or the church) into my barn.” Jesus clearly says that the evil will be gathered first. If we take this understanding and apply it to Matthew 24 and Luke 17, we get a very different understanding. The ones that are taken are not in the group we want to be in. The ones who are taken are the tares (the evil) that are being gathered to be burned, but the ones that are left are the wheat (the good) that are saved.

There is another metaphor that many well intentioned Christians use to support a secret rapture for the church; I feel that this too is an invalid interpretation of a story.

“But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.” (Matthew 24:43 & 44 KJV)

“And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through. Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.” (Luke 12:39 & 40 KJV)

“For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.” (1 Thessalonians 5:2 KJV)

“But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.” (2 Peter 3:10 KJV)

“Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.” (Revelation 16:15 KJV)

Here again, most Christians would attempt to say that this metaphor of a thief in the night is depicting a secret rapture for the church. I believe that most Christians have misinterpreted this too. First, Jesus explains what this metaphor means. He says that the meaning is not that the second coming is a secret but we do not know when it will occur. If we knew what day the Lord was to come, we would get ready the day before it, but since we do not know the day or the hour (Matthew 24:36), we must be ever ready! Just examine what Peter had to say of this metaphor in 2 Peter 3:10; he says that when the Lord comes as a thief,” the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, the elements shall melt with fervent heat, and the earth and the works that are therine shall be burned up.” Now I am not sure how all that could be kept a secret from anyone or how people would be able to live on the earth when it has passed away, burned up, and all the elements in it have melted.

Answer 8

I believe by the Greek tense of the word, we will be out before tribulation.

Answer 9

http://www.amazon.com/Rapture-Exposed-Message-Hope-Revelation/dp/0813391563

Read this excellent book, "The Rapture Exposed: The Message of Hope in the Book of Revelation" by Dr. Barbara Rossing, a Lutheran seminary professor. The best book on the rapture hoax that I have ever read.

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Answer 10

no pretrib fly away for cowards.
we are gathered back at the last trump/7th trump. not before.

those who are waiting for the crapture are ripe for the pickin by antichrist who will show up pretending to be Jesus saying "i'm here to fly you away just worship me".

they'll be those spoken of by Jesus "NOT ALL Who say lord lord shall enter the kingdom".

Answer 11

I really liked the first answer. And the 2nd, 3rd, 5th and 6th.

But I prefer clarinet music and trilobites.