If some followers of Jesus start an organization for teaching and worship, is that the Church?

Question

I'm trying to reconcile two facts. 1) Jesus started a single organization, with a leader, Peter, and bishops, the apostles, for whom he prayed "for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you." 2) There are presently about 38,000 Christian denominations (http://christianity.about.com/od/denominations/p/christiantoday.htm).

Those who question the leadership of Peter in the original Church may not have considered Jesus' play on words in Matthew 16:18:
And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it." Jesus' nickname for Simon, "Petros," means "Rock."

Answer 1

I say "No." Not every man who calls him Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven. There is an obedience clause. Jesus gave guidelines for his followers and he appointed leaders. Peter, in fact, was given a unique leadership role and authority by Christ. By authority I mean, the ability to decide whether teachings were true to what Christ taught. He did not make these decisions on his own but with the Holy Spirit and the counsel of his brothers.

Peter did not replace Jesus, but Jesus did appoint him to lead and serve his followers. “Feed my lambs . . . feed my sheep.” (John 21:15) Jesus had prayed that his faith would survive following the sin of denial, and later, he would strengthen his brothers (Luke 22:32). He took on the role of Pope, which should be translated as Papa, or endearing father of the church.

When the early church was established, they relied on an oral means of passing on the teachings of the Lord, followed by later written texts. These texts were collected into what we now call the Bible or the Scriptures. It includes the books of wisdom, the law, and the prophets which Jesus read and studied. Jesus interpretation of these texts, however, reflected his personal knowledge of God’s true character and will and not the interpretation of the teachers of his age. Besides this written collection of teachings, a history and traditions based on the practices of the early church and the expressed will of the Lord was preserved.

This original church, that is, the body of followers of Jesus, has splintered into many disconnected groups but the original church and its collected body of teachings and traditions remains in every corner of the world, with an established authority to teach what Jesus taught. This church, the Catholic Church, is not a schism or a sect. It is the universal church which Christ established. Though he instructed his disciples to not stop those preaching the gospel, he did not acknowledge that those individuals were his followers. Even demons recognize and acknowledge Jesus as the Son of God. (Luke 4:41)

Answer 2

Where in the Bible does it ever direct Peter to establish his church? The Catholic church claims authority because they claim Peter started the Catholic Church as directed by Jesus. If this is true then, without continual prophets or revelation no other church really did have the right to break off and create their own doctrine. I do not accept this as correct. I do not believe Peter ever established the Catholic Church and so the Catholic Church, and all other offshoots broken off of it never had any priesthood authority whatsoever.

I am LDS, mormon, and that is where we get our reasoning and authority from. We do not believe Peter was ever directed to establish the Catholic Church. We believe that the people fell into such a state of apostasy that had Christ set up an official church it would have been distorted and twisted in such a way that it would not be a good thing to establish it at the time. Instead people were inspired and directed to bring together certain works, the Bible, and the foundations were kept in place to one day restore Gods official church, and priesthood authority to the world when it was in a position where it would not become corrupted. That is why there was a restoration. We dont believe Joseph Smith created a brand new religion, but restored the original church, that of the old testament and that of which Christ spoke of, to the earth. It was then that the church was reorganized into its original organization of prophets and apostles and the priesthood authority was restored once again to the earth. We believe that several events occured and people were prepared to help reestablish the church. The creation of the US, which allowed an atmosphere which would let the church grow and prosper (eventually after all the persectution) and the passing down of certain beliefs and doctrines such as the Bible and even some mason concepts and beliefs.

This is why I think that it is either the Catholic Church or its the Mormon church when it comes to christianity. The priesthood lineage and its passage is pretty specific and organized in the Old Testament. Either the Catholic Church always had it and thus is directed to be the correct christian religion, or they never had it and the Mormon church, which claims absolutely no priesthood lineage thru the Catholic Church, has it because it was restored back to the earth when the church was reestablished. But why any other religion feels they had the authority to break away from a religion they claim had the direct lineage to Christ, without any belief in additional prophets or revelation, makes no sense whatsoever.

Answer 3

There is only 1 official Church started by Jesus Christ. It is the Catholic Church. Peter was the first Pope. Jesus gave the keys to Peter and said He was going to build his church upon him. The succession of Popes has never been broken. They can be listed all the way back to St. Peter.

Jesus said "I will no leave you orphan." he has left us with the authority of the Pope and the laws and tradition of the Catholic Church so we would know the truth. "I am the way, the TRUTH, and the light."

The Pope is guided by the Holy Spirit. "Those who have ears listen to what the Holy Spirit is speaking to the Church." There is only 1 Holy Spirit. He is not speaking different things to different Churchs.. The Catholic Church is the only Church with the authority to pass down what the Holy Spirit is saying through the Pope on laws and issues of faith and morals. This doesn't mean that the Pope can't sin in personal matters. It means we have been promised by Jesus that he will not lead the church in the wrong direction.

The other Christian churchs' are based on the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ as the only Savior. They have part of the truth. They don't have the fullness of the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church is the only Church with the authority through priests at the concecration of Mass to have the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ. We also are the ones that have been given the authority for confession. We acknowledge and use the intercession of all the angels saints and holy souls in purgatory for intercession to help us. We have the Blessed Mother in her rightful place as an intercessor to Jesus. "Ther is only one way to the FATHER, through Jesus Christ" but There are many ways to Jesus. One true Catholic Apostolic Church. Follow the Pope and what the Church teaches and you can't go wrong.

Answer 4

The church is not a organization is a organism. It is something living. The church is the body of Christ. A body is a organism, not a organization. The church has two aspect the universal aspect and the local aspect. In the Bible we can see that the Church is Christ Himself. In 1 Cor. 12:12-13. If you begin something like that, that is not the church. The church is something of life and in life. It has to be with the Head and the body together, as long as you the two of those then you have the church, if not then you have another denomination.

Answer 5

Peter is not the leader of Christ's Church. Christ is the leader. The Church is the Body of Christ. It is not four walls built by man and organized by man. It is made up of all the believers everywhere. A church with four walls were worship and teaching is conducted is a church. If you want to start a church go ahead. Just make sure that Jesus is the Head and the Bible is the authority.

Answer 6

I'm a little uncomfortable with fellow followers of Christ having this exchange in front of non-believers, but to answer your question . . .

The "CHURCH," is all followers of Christ. Not an "organization."

Before the first Gospel was ever recorded, there were hundreds, if not thousands of followers of Christ, who probably had no idea who Peter was.

I'm surprised you haven't actually read Acts.

Here are a few examples of Paul working independently:

This is from Acts 11
25Then Barnabas went to Tarsus to look for Saul, 26and when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. So it was that for an entire year they associated with* the church and taught a great many people, and it was in Antioch that the disciples were first called ‘Christians’.

Acts 13: 13 Then Paul and his companions set sail from Paphos and came to Perga in Pamphylia. John, however, left them and returned to Jerusalem; 14but they went on from Perga and came to Antioch in Pisidia.

Here's where Paul talks about the "split"

Galatians 2: 7On the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel for the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel for the circumcised 8(for he who worked through Peter making him an apostle to the circumcised also worked through me in sending me to the Gentiles), 9and when James and Cephas and John, who were acknowledged pillars, recognized the grace that had been given to me, they gave to Barnabas and me the right hand of fellowship, agreeing that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised. 10They asked only one thing, that we remember the poor, which was actually what I was* eager to do.

So, technically, Peter was to share the Good News among their fellow Jews -- that was his "single organization," as you call it.

Denominations don't matter . . . all that matters is that every person can have a personal relationship with Christ through the Holy Spirit.

People don't join a "Church," or THE Church. People give their lives to Christ, have the spirit fill their hearts, and are guided by God.

Godspeed.

Answer 7

What ingredients in the early church are found in Act 2:42-47 which show they cared for one an other, love : the motivation of fellowship. Love Among Believers. Reconciliation in the body.

Your Definition of The words Church:

-A building with or without a steeple
-A local group of people, a congregation
- a denomination or religious organization
- All people who have received Christ as a Saviour

The bible uses the term "church" in two ways. One usage refers to all people who have trusted Christ as a savior---the universal church. "and he gave him as a head over all things to the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills in all" (Ephesians 1:22,23)

He commands us to build relationships with other christians in order to give and receive love and encouragement. Receiving fellowship from a small group alone is not enough.
we need to be in a local church where is honored and the bible is preached.

If the follower of Jesus start an organization for teaching and worship, the whole body, being fitted and held together by that which every joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body for building up of itself in love Its called Church-worshiping together in one accord is called Church.

Answer 8

I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses and will only comment on the things you brought up. We do not believe in hell as we have the God that ''is love''. If you think about it do you think it would be fair to have people tormented day and night for all eternity for sinning? Considering we all sin then we'd all have to be in hell. In the original text the word 'hell' is not there so it was added. The scriptures are very clear on the resurrection. Jesus said that all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice and come out, the righteous was well as the unrighteous. Resurrected to life or judgment. The Bible also says the wages sin pays is death so we all die as we all sin. You said this girl you thought was a Witness. By what she said, according to you "From what I gather, you don't believe that hell is a place of eternal torment and that at the end of time god resurrect the people who loved him most. That's what a girl said to one of my questions about God, I think she was Jehovah's Witness." I don't think she is one. Witnesses believe only Jehovah God decides who He will resurrect. For all we know He may let Hitler come back to life. Only God would know if Hitler was in his right mind or not. IT is not our judgment. We do not take blood for the scripture that says to not take blood into your body. Our life force is in our blood and we are not to take another persons life force. We will take other things to enhance our own blood and I've had to so I can speak first hand on this. Dr's can use saline which is not contaminated with illnesses from other people. I needed blood back in 2002 and signed a directive to not have it but saline was used instead to enhance my blood. Cause of it my healing time was much shorter. We live by God's Word, the Bible and Jesus Christ rather than what man says is right.

Answer 9

There is only One Church... Commissioned with Jesus The Christ as The Head... No man has ever been "leader" of The Church.... God will not concider membership in a particular "denomination" when allowing entery into Heaven... Only those of The Church will enter Heaven.

Answer 10

To start an organization for teaching and worship is to start an ecclesial community. This community has no assurance of teaching the truth since Jesus promised the Paraclete to the Church He founded, not anyone elses. You shouldn't rely on a Church where you do not have His teaching authority and assurance of Truth. All Christians should be part of the Church where you can find the fulness of Truth offered by God to man...the Catholic Church.

1) "I am the way, the truth, and the life"

2) the Church is the pillar/defendar and foundation of truth. (1 Tim 3:15)

3) "If he does not listen to them. Then tell it to the Church" (Matt: 18:15)

4) Ex: Acts 15

God Bless
Robin