Martin Luther's Anti Reason QUote?

Question

"Reason is the greatest enemy that faith has; it never comes to the aid of spiritual things, but... more frequently than not... struggles against the divine Word, treating with contempt all that emanates from God"

Does anyone know where this comes from. I have read that it is "taken out of context", so I'd like to read it IN context.

Answer 1

Reason is the greatest enemy that faith has: it never comes to the aid of spiritual things, but--more frequently than not --struggles against the divine Word...

Martin Luther, Table Talk (1569)

The book is a conpendium of talks he gave to students, and conversations he had with colleuges, eating, drinking, and copied furiously by students in notes.

The full title of Dr. Martin Luther's Book, entitled,
Colloquia Mensalia,

or, his

Divine Discourses at his Table, held with divers learned Men and pious Divines; such as Philip Melancthon, Caspar Cruciger, Justus Jonas, Vitus Dietrich, John Bugenhagen, John Forster, etc.: containing Divers Discourses touching Religion, and other main Points of Doctrine; as also many notable Histories, and all sorts of Learning, Comforts, Advices, Prophecies, Admonitions, Directions and Instructions.

they never quote the section of his conversations about reason and faith in full..

"CCXCIV.

Why do Christians make use of their natural wisdom and understanding, seeing it must be set aside in matters of faith, as not only not understanding them, but also as striving against them?

Answer: The natural wisdom of a human creature in matters of faith, until he be regenerate and born anew, is altogether darkness, knowing nothing in divine cases. But in a faithful person, regenerate and enlightened by the Holy Spirit, through the Word, it is a fair and glorious instrument, and work of God: for even as all God's gifts, natural instruments, and expert faculties, are hurtful to the ungodly, even so are they wholesome and saving to the good and godly.

The understanding, through faith, receives life from faith; that which was dead, is made alive again; like as our bodies, in light day, when it is clear and bright, and better disposed, rise, move, walk, etc., more readily and safely than they do in the dark night, so it is with human reason, which strives not against faith, when enlightened, but rather furthers and advances it.

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but rather choose to select a passage concerning the baptism of children, and edit it to searve thier own ends. The conversation took place in 1541 beween Martin Luther and Doctor Menius

"CCCLIII.

The anabaptists pretend that children, not as yet having reason, ought not to receive baptism. I answer: That reason in no way contributes to faith. Nay, in that children are destitute of reason, they are all the more fit and proper recipients of baptism. For reason is the greatest enemy that faith has: it never comes to the aid of spiritual things, but - more frequently than not - struggles against the Divine Word, treating with contempt all that emanates from God. If God can communicate the Holy Ghost to grown persons, he can, a fortiori, communicate it to young children. Faith comes of the Word of God, when this is heard; little children hear that Word when they receive baptism, and therewith they receive also faith."
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The contents of the book themselves were gathered from the mouth of Luther, by his friends and disciples, and chiefly by Antony Lauterbach and John Aurifaber (Goldschmidt), who were very much with the great Reformer towards the close of his life. They consist of notes of his discourses, of his opinions, his cursory observations, in the freedom of private friendship, in his walks, during the performance of his clerical duties, and at table.

There can be as little doubt of the completeness as of the authenticity of their notes. Filled with the most profound respect for "the venerable man of God," they would have deemed it sacrilege to omit, or alter, or modify, aught that fell from his lips. The oracle had spoken; it was their pride and glory to repeat his words with the most scrupulous fidelity.

___________

The first German edition of the Tischreden, or Table-Talk, of Martin Luther, a folio volume, was published at Eisleben, in 1566, under the editorial care of John Aurifaber. This edition was reprinted twice in 1567, and a fourth time in 1568. The last reprint is prefaced by some new pages from the pen of the editor, who complains of one Dr. Kugling, as having, in a rival edition, made material alterations of the text. This rival edition, however, would appear never to have got beyond the manuscript form; at all events, it is unknown to bibliographers. The four editions already specified are exact reproductions, the one of the other, infinite typographical blunders included. In 1569 appeared a new edition (Frankfurt, folio), with an appendix "of prophecies which the venerable man of God, just before his holy death, delivered unto divers learned theologians and ecclesiastics, with many consolatory letters, opinions, narratives, replies, etc., never before made public." The dedication "to the Council of Rauschemberg," dated 24th March, 1568, intimates that the editor, John Pink, had derived his new materials from various books and writings of Martin Luther. The Prophecies, it is added, were due to the research of George Walther, preacher at Halle.

I have included a link to William Helditz's translation of it

Answer 2

I'm sure it is taken out of context but still, the fact remains that reason is an enemy to faith. Circular reasoning is just that an endless circle. Some things just have to be take by faith and then the signs and wonders follow. You've seen movies where someone is trapped at the edge of a cliff, they reason for a second whether they can catch a tree limb as they leap off the edge (or not) but they have a pack of enemies and dogs chasing them. They make a decision to take that leap of faith or face certain death because of what is behind them.
Nobody would fault them for taking that leap of faith even though it may not seem completely reasonable to jump off a cliff and hope you will catch the tree limb. People who accept Jesus as their saviour and Lord many times feel there is nothing behind them but bad memories chasing them.......and perhaps even feel it is driving them towards self destruction. So they take a leap of faith and accept Jesus into their heart.
What's wrong with that? Nothing! It always has a good outcome.

Answer 3

Taken out of context or not, I think it's ok to disagree with something. As it is written right there, I disagree with it. I think that simple reasoning can lead a person to God. Now, could this quote be taken out of context? Sure. Maybe if we read the whole chapter, or something, we would see that what he means by "reason".

Answer 4

That is the main problem with faith based religion it demands unreasonable blind obedience to it's dogma & that is why I choose to remain a reasonable person!

Answer 5

I'M NOT SURE ABOUT THE ACCURACY OF THE QUOTE, BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE HIM AND IT DOES MAKE SENSE. YOU CANNOT REALLY JUDGE LUTHER BY TODAY'S STANDARDS - HE LIVED IN A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT WORLD AND HE CHANGED THAT WORLD. THAT QUOTE GIVES ONE SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT AND IT MADE ME THINK ABOUT THE ROLE OF FAITH IN MY OWN LIFE.

Answer 6

ask a lutherian church they should know if it was by him but his paper posted on the church i dont know the name of it might be where its from