Atheists answer me this . . .?

Question

What is your take on this matter?

According to the principle of evolution (which I whole-heartedly support), a species would not fully acquire a skill unless it was necessary for reproduction and survival, right?

Well if you believe in this and no spiritual realm, how can you explain the skills that the human race has acquired? The skills that are far and above anything needed for survival? Eloquent symphonies, fictional novels, astounding works of art, mind-blowing technology, computer games, entertaining movies, moral law, extreme selflessness, and the never ending need for spiritual satisfaction? NONE of these things have ever had anything to do with the ability to survive . . . and yet they flourish more than ever!

You know that none of this is found in any other species! Your thoughts please . . . I promise I am a VERY opened minded person . . . are you?

ahhhh, many of you mention simple tricks that were taught to animals by man, so amusing . . .

I know QUITE a lot about evolution, I am a BIG fan of the concept. I also believe that genetics is the language of God. He spoke it upon the planet.

And I KNOW in every other species, they acquire a skill for sexual reproduction. Intelligence in our society IS NOT the equivilant, in fact it can often be a deterent. It still does not explain our amazing creations, or our constant need for spiritual fullfillment.

Ask yourself this . . . according to the bible we are made in Gods image. Is it possible that we are made as creators?

Answer 1

I don't pretend to have all the answers but let's think on this a while...
Thinking is exactly the skill I believe you are talking about. It is our minds that allow us to write great symphonies, to remember our collective history and conceive of possible tomorrows. The evolution of our brain is what dictated our collective fate.
So why did our brains evolve instead of growing a second pair of hands, as would seem logical for mothers?
Our brains evolved because we needed to work together. Most social animals are also highly intelligent. It is a necessity that we be able to communicate, be it through words, music, or facial expressions, in order to coexist and survive as a whole.
In one sense it is our ability to express ourselves and please one another that is the key to our survival.
Our capacity for hate and selfishness comes from the juxtaposition of interdependence and independence... but that is a discussion for another day...
There is anthropological evidence that these traits (artistic expression and self awareness) were present in other species such as Neanderthal; Homo Sapien was simply the most successful.

However (just to hedge my bets) Anthropologists also indicate a time in history they refer to as "The giant leap forward" when many of the higher thinking skills that make us who we are rapidly accelerated for reasons not yet fully understood...
Always keep an open mind, right? :-)

Answer 2

Music, literature, art, technology, interactive entertainment, movies...these are a product of evolution. Humans evolved a highly developed mind. The things you list are the product of that mind being used. The mind needs constant stimulation to continue to develop. Other animals (with the exception of dolphins) didn't develop the brain in the same way that homo sapiens did.

There is no such thing as 'moral law'. Morality is the product of civilization, and society. Selflessness can be construed in a similar way; however, when talking about heroics (running into a burning building to save someone), there is a certain 'evolutionary' imperitive at work. By helping an individual to survive, one is also actively working to keep a part of the species alive.

"the never ending need for spiritual satisfaction?" Sorry, but this isn't something that's built into every person. I don't have this need. That said, there have been studys that prove that in some people (the most devout) the endorphines released into the bloodstream by 'fervent' prayer are the same as those released during sex, eating chocolate, and doing heroin. Endorphines are a 'feel good' chemical that our bodies produce. Simply put, for some it feels good (that doesn't make the prayer anymore valid, except on a physical level).

EDIT: You put forth that according to the bible, we are made in god's image, and claim to have accepted evolution. Which is it? If we were created in god's image, then the evolutionary steps before homo sapiens are irrelevant.

Furthermore, according to the bible, the only difference between gods and men is immortality. God proclaimed that "man has become like us, knowing good from evil", and then evicted his creation from the garden before they could become immortal. This passage pretty well sums up the lack of a need for a god...since we are 'like gods ourselves'.

Answer 3

Those things are all based on imagination, which is an incredibly useful skill for survival. The symphonies and novels are just lucky by-products.
None of the tools or techniques invented by prehistoric hominids would have been possible unless they were able to imagine them first. It just so happens that by using the same imagination ability we're able to write stories or invent supercomputers.

You use the phrase "simple tricks that were taught to animals by man", but don't you realise that painting and writing are skills taught to humans as well? Only a very small number of people invented any of the skills you mention, and none of them are genetic. Furthermore, the people who did invent them probably weren't particularly good at them. You're probably thinking of advanced technologies, beautiful paintings, complex novels, etc. Those things are only created by people who have learnt to create them. The first technology was probably a rock sharpened by hitting it against another rock. The first painting was probably a finger painting done with mud or water. The first story was probably completely devoid of subtext, metaphors, character development, etc. People developed these techniques from there, but through the simple abilities of modelling (a form of learning seen in quite a few other species) and imagination.

Also, you have to realise that a painting or a story lives independently of its creator. An artist might have no children, but his art work can still teach others after he's dead. So the fact that creativity and intelligence don't always aid survival is unimportant.

Answer 4

Genetic changes occur randomly and if the change is not selected against it will persist in a population, but if it selected for it will become the dominant characteristic over time. The thing you mention are unusual and not dominant but there is no reason to believe the ability to create eloquent symphonies, fictional novels, astounding works of art, mind-blowing technology, computer games, and entertaining movies would decrease your survival chances. Altruism does decrease the probability of a individual survival but not the group that they share genes with so having altruism promotes the survival of the gene pool.

Answer 5

Play is important in many species. Humans just have a higher developed sense of play.

We have the ability to develop movies, paint, and play instruments. Even tiger cubs play. Dolphins actually have well organized activites, and have been know to initiate play with divers. The only difference is that we are much more evolved, therefore, our play is more evolved.

Moral law is something that's evolved from millenia of having to cooperate with each other for survival. As the human race develops, the moral code changes to suit the times.

Extreme selflessness...that's something I rarely see in the human race :) I know that a mother's desire to protect her young, while on the surface might look selfless, is actually an instinct to protect the survival of the species. Many animals have that instinct, humans included.

Hope this helps :)

Answer 6

We're intelligent beings whose brains need entertaining.

With regard to entertainment:
"use it or lose it", as they say - perhaps we use these things to keep our minds ticking over and not rotting away to nothing, so we can continue to use our superior intellect to run society.

I also think that we actively enjoy these things because we are intelligent - my brain enjoys hearing a symphony; perhaps that is a fortuitous by-product of being smarter than my cat, who sleeps through it. Or perhaps I'm just smart enough to appreciate how complicated it is - and my cat isn't.

Other things like morality and selflessness are to do with keeping society running smoothly - and that is of great evolutional advantage.

The need for spiritual satisfaction, I think, is completely traditional/culturally based. Children who have been raised by dogs in the wild have no ridiculous misconceptions about gods when they are brought back to human civilisation.

Answer 7

This is an old concept of Thomas Henry Huxley, an English biologist. He died in June of 1895. He was a very learned man. This is not a widely accepted *principle* of evolution if accepted by anyone anymore. We have learned much more since the early yrs. This is what science does...it change when new information is attained. Mankind has acquired so much because our BRAINS evolved.

Answer 8

Art isn't limited to the human animal! Have you ever heard of the "bower bird?" During mating season, the male builds sophisticated little sculptures that can reach two feet high and cover an area of 24 square inches. The sculpture begins with twigs stripped clean and stood up like pick-up-sticks in an arch or two pedestals or even an elaborate straw hut. Then, lain about in an intricate design, the bower bird will collect hundreds of pink flower petals or green twist ties or blue bottle caps or red buttons, whatever he feels best expresses himself. It's the most beautiful example of independent ornithoid creativity.

And they don't even have a brain the size that WE have! We are evolving towards greater things that even WE are not aware of.

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Answer 9

Evolution doesn't say that skills (or traits) aren't acquired until they are needed. That would be too late. They can show up anytime, and as long as they aren't detrimental, they can hang around.

However, the items you list aren't subject to evolution, but are the products of technology which has allowed us to spend less time trying to survive and more time on other things.

Answer 10

You are quite wrong to say that none of these things are found in other species.
Just sit and listen to a nightingale for an hour and you will realise it is singing for sheer joy and the same with a skylark.
This has nothing to do with survival, it's giving its position away to predators yet it still does it.
Read about the bower bird and the way it decorates its nests, each one an individual effort and very varied.
There are numerous other examples in nature.