JW's If there is no conscious awareness after death?

Question

how could the "spirits in prison", who lived during “Noah’s days”, be preached to by Christ after His death (1Pet 3:18-20) and how could the good news be "declared also to the dead" (1 Pet 4:5-6)? If the “spirits in prison” of 1Pet 3:19 refers to demonic angels, instead of the just people who died before the resurrection of Christ, then why would Jesus “preach” to demonic angels?

Thanks for the input simon61161. I'd also like to add Luke 16:19-31 in which both Lazuras and the rich man died and there is a dialog.

The problem for the Society is that this passage does not necessarily teach the annihilation of the soul. Because Ecclesiastes contrasts two opposing perspectives of the world - the human perspective, and the perspective given through God's revelation - many Christian scholars understand this passage to be stating that, from a fatalistic human perspective, the dead are conscious of nothing. Other Christian scholars understand the passage to mean that the dead are conscious of nothing which is true in they physical realm but not the spiritual.

conundrum- Yes I am trying to disprove the society's teaching. Jesus was resurrected.

And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death. Rev. 1:17-18

They will give an account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. 1 Pet. 4:5-6

Seasoned-
You need to read 1 Pet. 4:5-6 carefully. It's not referring to demons but to people who died in their sin.

I agree with you singularvision.

Answer 1

Hi I cant answer for the occult that you posed the question to, but recently I heard a 7 day adventist preacher (didnt know at the time) preach on something called soul sleep. His premise was that when you die your soul returns to the lord but in an unaware state till the resurrection. He used the verse that the dead know nothing and more old testament verses than new, but he made a very questionable argument.
I rejected it as it sounded hokey and came up with other conflicting verses.
Here is a letter addressing the fallacies of soul sleep

http://www.ftfacts.com/letter.htm

(EXERT)
2Peter 2:9 the Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment unto the day of judgment; (ASV)

2Peter 2:9 The Lord is able to keep the upright safe in the time of testing, and to keep evil-doers under punishment till the day of judging; (BBE)

2Peter 2:9 then be sure that the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptation, and to keep the wicked (who are even now enduring punishment) for the "Day of Judgment"; (MNT)

2Pe 2:9 then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trial, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment until the day of judgment, (RSV)

2Peter 2:9 the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptation and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment; (WEB)

2Peter 2:9 Since all this is so, the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from temptation, and on the other hand how to keep the unrighteous under punishment in readiness for the Day of Judgement, (WNT)

2Peter 2:9 The Lord hath known to rescue pious ones out of temptation, and unrighteous ones to a day of judgment, being punished, to keep, (YLT)

2Peter 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished: (KJV)

If one rejects the emphatic truth of this verse, all the rest will not make any difference. Are you looking for a way around it now or are you willing to accept the plain truth it teaches? Please do not go any further until you have answered this question, for it will all be in vain.

in harmony with other scriptures

Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

After death comes judgment. No mention of a resurrection first.

Answer 2

. King Solomon of ancient Israel wrote: “As for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all . . . There is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol [mankind’s common grave].” (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10)
Given that that statement is in the Bible, are you Trying to Disprove that statement by asking the JW something that would go contrary to it, or do you accept what you read in other verses But dont Understand what it means?
In Either Case One cannot stray from what is stated In ecc 9: 5,10...
The first part of your Question suggests that Jesus was Not resurrected.. since you use the word " by Christ after His death ". You need to understand that the Angels from Noah's time could not re-enter Heaven and for that they were banished to Tartarus.
Jude says, “did not keep their original position but forsook their own proper dwelling place” in heaven. They came to earth before the Flood and took on fleshly bodies so as to engage in sexual relations with the daughters of men. As punishment for their improper, unnatural conduct, they were thrown into “Tartarus,” or as Jude’s account says, they were “reserved with eternal bonds under dense darkness for the judgment of the great day.”— Jude 6;
Accordingly, the resurrected Jesus Christ could only have proclaimed a message of condemnation to the disobedient angels. The ‘ruler of the world’ is also the ruler of the disobedient angels or demons. (Compare Revelation 12:7-9.) Hence, in harmony with the “convincing evidence” of God’s spirit, the resurrected Christ could proclaim a fully justified judgment against the “spirits in prison.”
Jesus could Preach Condemnation because he did it to the Religious Leaders of his Day.
Jesus had to go up against an indifferent, hardhearted people with a message of condemnation, which included a message of hope for those who would turn from their wicked course. Many crowds came out to hear Jesus talk, but few responded appreciatively to his teachings. (Lu 4:18) he plainly explained to the Jews that they were in spiritual bondage and needed release, which he was sent to provide. (Joh 8:31-36)
Why not to The " Spirits In Prison?"..

Answer 3

The dead are unconscious and unaware.

The "spirits in prison" are demons. The message that the resurrected Jesus preached to them was one of condemnation and judgment, not of salvation.

1 Peter 4:5, 6 refers to spiritually dead ones, as does Ephesians 2:1, which says, "Furthermore, it is you God made alive though you were dead in your trespasses and sins."

Answer 4

Christ's preaching to the spirits in prison has to do with his serving notice on the demons that his victory over death meant that the demons who caused Jesus' death would themselves be put to death by Christ and his victorious 144,000. That's why Paul wrote to his fellow anointed Christians in the last chapter of Romans, telling them that God "will crush Satan under your feet shortly."

The Bible teaches very simply that the dead are unconscious in the grave. However, the Bible sometimes refers to people who do not have a relationship with God as being dead—spiritually dead that is. For example, Jesus once said: "Let the dead bury their dead." Christ said that to indicate that unless we have a living relationship with him and his Father we are as good as dead in their eyes, even though we may be living according to all appearances.

So it is that the other verse in question is referring to people of the world, those whom in the context are described as fleshly-minded, who are dead in God's sight, but who were nevertheless given an opportunity to hear God's message preached to them.

Answer 5

It's pronouncing that the character is pleased with a purpose to die in union with the Lord. Not that the useless are honestly "pleased". This scripture tells us that "the useless are aware of not anything": Ecclesiastes nine:five

Answer 6

Here is an interesting exercise: Using any quality translation, read through while replacing each instance of "soul" with the word "ghost". A handful of verse will make sense. Now, read through while mentally replacing each instance of "soul" with the word "life". Significantly, nearly every single verse makes perfect sense.

The bible does not teach that the "soul" is some immortal otherworldly entity, but simply that a soul is a living thing (human or animal, interestingly). The word "spirit" simply means "that which is invisible but the effects of which can be seen"; the word is even used in the bible to refer to the wind!

Of course, angels and demons (and even God and Christ) are "spirit beings" because they are invisible.

When 1 Peter 3:18-20 refers to Christ speaking with the "spirits in prison", to whom does it refer?
...(2 Peter 2:4) God did not hold back from punishing the angels that sinned... delivered them to pits of dense [spiritual] darkness to be reserved for judgment
...(Jude 6) And the angels that did not keep their original position but forsook their own proper dwelling place he has reserved with eternal bonds under dense darkness for the judgment of the great day.

Some have asked why the resurrected Jesus would "preach" to condemned demons. Perhaps they are unfamiliar with the connotations of the Greek word used by the apostle Peter which is translated into English as "preach".
Strong's [quote]
κηρύσσω kērussō
Of uncertain affinity; to herald (as a public crier)
[unquote]
...Thus Jesus was heralding God's victory and Satan's failure to thwart the ransom, forcing the demons to recognize the finality of their judgment.


When 1 Peter 4:5,6 mentions that the good news had been declared to "the dead", to whom does that refer?
...(Ephesians 2:1) Furthermore, it is you God made alive though you were dead in your trespasses and sins
...(Matthew 8:22) Jesus said to him: “[My disciples] Keep following me, and let the [others who are spiritually] dead bury their dead.”


The bible certainly does not teach about an immortal soul which survives the body. So what does the bible teach about "the soul"? Each deceased life is in Jehovah God's remembrance (with the potential for future resurrection), but the dead do not exist anywhere but memories until and unless the life is resurrected.

(Ezekiel 18:4) The soul that is sinning - it itself will die.

(Ecclesiastes 9:5) For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all

(Ecclesiastes 9:10) there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol ["hell"]

(Genesis 2:17) But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die.”

(Genesis 17:14) And an uncircumcised male who will not get the flesh of his foreskin circumcised, even that soul must be cut off from his people. He has broken my covenant.”

(Judges 16:30) And Samson proceeded to say: “Let my soul die with the Philistines.” Then he bent himself with power, and the house went falling upon the axis lords and upon all the people that were in it, so that the dead that he put to death in his own death came to be more than those he had put to death during his lifetime.

(Job 33:22) And his soul draws near to the pit, And his life to those inflicting death.

(Psalm 78:50) He did not hold back their soul from death itself; And their life he handed over even to the pestilence.

(Isaiah 53:12) he poured out his soul to the very death

(Acts 3:23) Indeed, any soul that does not listen to that Prophet will be completely destroyed from among the people.’

(Revelation 16:3) And the second one poured out his bowl into the sea. And it became blood as of a dead man, and every living soul died, yes, the things in the sea.

Learn more:
http://watchtower.org/e/lmn/index.htm?article=article_08.htm
http://watchtower.org/e/19970515/article_02.htm
http://watchtower.org/e/20050501/article_02.htm

Answer 7

You are right on and also:

1 Cor. 15: 55--"O death, where is they sting? O Grave, where is thy victory"

If we are just dead in the grave, how could this verse be true?

2 Cor. 5: 2-8

Why does Paul say we are burdened by our fleshly bodies because, in them, we are "absent from the Lord". If we cease to exist at death, how is death preferable to life in our fleshly bodies, and why does Paul say that we are absent from the Lord as long as we are here on earth?

1 John 3:2

Why does John say that it we shall be like Christ, when He returns, indicating that we will have glorified bodies like His, if there is no hope for us post-death?

I could go on and on, but it's past my bedtime. :)

Answer 8

Good question...but I wonder what showing them the TRUTH really does? We should keep trying..going to bed as well...until tomorrow, when the fun will begin again....