Can someone explain how physical laws are proof of God?

Question

Can someone break this argument down for me?

Couldn't they simply be a result of the existence of matter and energy?

thc: There are many ways to answer that question. Currently, it is believed that nothingness is unstable, and we should expect something to form immediately. With the balance of negative gravitational energy and positive energy, there seem to be no miracles required. Also, since E=mc^2, energy can become matter.

death from above: As certain as you are that I do not have proof of God's nonexistence, I am that sure he does not exists. It is not arrogance that led to our beliefs, it is reason.

goinupru: Gravity is an effect of the existence of matter. Matter bends space, no divine hand required. Saying that design is "obvious" is not really saying anything objective.

Derek: The phrase "cause" implies the existence of time. To speak of a cause for time, or a "time before time," is to speak incoherently.

Answer 1

What caused the big bang.

For the time before time there was nothingness. And then at one point there was something that came from nothing. THIS IS SCIENCE.

What caused this to happen? I don't know if I would call this god in the judo-christian idea of God, but some force created the universe from nothingness, that is science fact, the only question is was this a random act or a concision act? You decide?

Added: Did you really try to disprove my theory of God with lessons in grammer. If my grammer is the 'anti-god' doesn't that make me more powerful than an actual God.

Don't ask questions if you don't want people to try to answer them.

PS: for the record the defination of cause is: The producer of an effect, result, or consequence.

Nowhere is it stated that it implies the existence of time. Especially since the existence of time is related directly to the existence of movement. And basic physics tells us that movement is always the result of some form of cause and effect. Thus if as the big bang states there was a time when there was no movement, what CAUSED the first movement that EFFECTED the creation of the universe. Jack@ss.

Answer 2

The best argument for me in this area is simple - the physical laws of the universe are the same everywhere and they do no vary over time. Any system that does not have a central planner tends to develop differently in different places. We know this is not the case in the universe since we can predict the movement of planetary bodies light years away. On the other hand, think of the development of language on earth. We are only one humanity on one earth but because there was no central planning concerning languages we have hundreds of different languages world wide. If the development of physical laws was random as well would there not be different laws in different places?

However, at the end of the day, at least for me, there is no absolute proof that you can find that proves the existence of God since he is beyond our conception to understand. Therefore, we have to look at the possible results of His existance and ask - is it more likely that things are the way they are because there is a God or is it more likely that everything around happen out of pure random luck?

Answer 3

The concept is is that the laws and universal constance (eg gravity) are finely tuned to create stable matter and conditions for life. The argument id that if any of these universal constants were to be even a TINY bit different the whole universe would fall apart. They use this as evidence that GOD must have set it all up.

The problem is that the only piece of evidence we have in our existence is our existence itself. We are here to think about it so life is obviously possible but who know what time line it took to generate life and the conditions of this universe. Time is infinite and because of this the odds of the "life creating" conditions could be nearly infinitly small but over and infinite amount of time they WILL arise. It seems to me that a finely tuned universe proving god is a ludicrous leap of reason.

People use Murphy's law to say "anything that can go wrong will go wrong" What Murphy originally meant " Anything event, no matter unlikely, will happen over time if time is infinite"

Of course Murphy is right. Multiply the smallest number conceiveable by infinity and guess what, its still infinity

Answer 4

Physical laws are not proof of god.

Matter and energy- the universe (timeless and boundless)- behaves in predictable ways. That is the DEFINITION of matter and energy. Without the behavour, there is no matter and energy.

You do not need a creator or a supervisor to ensure physical laws, as the laws are intrinsic to matter and energy. Again, the laws are the very definition.

As for life- that is also matter and energy behaving in predictable ways.

Answer 5

The argument is that since there are physical laws to the universe just as there are legal laws of the land, that these are repeated patterns of advanced intelligence. Basic designs and laws that are repeated everywhere in the universe.

The argument basically suggests that something so complex must have a creator even by the laws that govern the universe since one of the laws is that everything is created by something else.

All I am doing is giving you the basic argument structure in a nutshell, its more complex than this and I am not saying it is a good or bad argument.

Answer 6

The universe is built on Mathematical laws. Physical laws may change depending on the planet and plane of existence, but the mathematical ones dont.

This is why older mathematicians like Pythagoras and his followers actually believed 'that the essence of being is number. Thus, being relies on stability of all things that create the universe. Things like health relied on a stable proportion of elements; too much or too little of one thing causes an imbalance that makes a being unhealthy. Pythagoras viewed thinking as the calculating with the idea numbers.'

Mathematical rules do not change.

Theyre constant.

The question is, since physical existence did not influence and create mathematical laws (that existence is built on), who did?

Answer 7

I'm not very knowledgeable about physics, but i know that something can't come from nothing. You mentioned matter and energy, okay, were did the matter and energy come from would be the next question. It is the most logical to believe a Supreme Being created us and the world we live in, rather than assume all kinds of prerequisites that lead to an event that is highly suspect at best. And please explain to me how inorganic matter produces life?

Answer 8

Heres a simple one for ya. Without gravity , you and I would be spun out into space and die. Who do you think placed this physical law into being? The same guy who created the whole place to begin with...God Himself.

That , to me , is alot easier to believe than the silly story that it all came about from a big bang. Gimme a break. Some intelligent design is OBVIOUS, and God says that the physical laws you see around you ARE proof of His existance, and that everyone is without excuse. He also has left His testimony in a book for anyone who wants to, to read.

Answer 9

Are you aware that Physicists believe there is a 'Theory of Everything'. One theory that mathematically encompasses all other known phenomena and theories of Physics. Surely that speaks for a divine Creator and Sustainer of all. If you listen to some of these 'The Elegant Universe' videos you will start to understand the precision of the universe, how everything is so elegantly coordinated. 'Strings the Thing' in particular I would recommend to listen to if you haven't got the time to listen to all. Here is the link:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/program.html

God...Glorious and Exalted is He (Allah subhana wa ta'ala) is eternal, infinite, has no partner or equal ...this is the Oneness of God (Allah). And God (Allah) only has to say "Be" (creative "Be") and it will Be (Qur'an).

"To Him is due the primal origin of the heavens and the earth: When He decreeth a matter, He saith to it: "Be," and it is. [Qur'an 2:117]

God (Allah) is beyond time and place. He is the Creator of time and place. His command enters from beyond these limited realms and manifests itself in this world of time and place. God (Allah subhana wa ta'ala) also directly creates each and every action in the universe in each and every moment. He thus gives order to everything. Nothing is random or chaotic or outside the Order of God (Allah subhana wa ta'ala).

Imam Al Ghazali in his 'Tahafut al-Falasifa' says:
"God is not the cause of the world in the sense that a cause is that which necessarily accompanies its effect. But God is a cause in [a] second sense, a free agent that precedes its effect. Thus, the effect (the universe) need not follow upon the heels of the cause (God), but can appear a finite number of years ago when God willed from eternity that it should be"
http://www.muslimphilosophy.com/journal/is-01/Ch-Ghazali%20.doc

Imam Ghazali's summary (Jerusalem Treatise) of eternal oneness of God (Allah), and his attributes:
http://www.noblesanctuary.com/ghazali.html

"Allah is He Who raised the heavens without any pillars that ye can see; is firmly established on the throne (of authority); He has subjected the sun and the moon (to his Law)! Each one runs (its course) for a term appointed. He doth regulate all affairs, explaining the signs in detail, that ye may believe with certainty in the meeting with your Lord. " [Qur'an 13:2]

Salam (peace).

Answer 10

My slant on the issue is physical laws prove that the basis of reality is physical. This directly contradicts the ancient solipsistic view that the basis of reality is the subjective experience of the observer. Believers, both ancient and modern, are invariably solipsists who imagine that because they experience God in their subjective experience, it proves that God exists in all of reality. This is simply not true, because science has proved time and again, since Galileo in 1590, that the basis of reality is not subjective experience, but the physical realm. The existence of verifiable physical law does not prove the existence of God in objective (physical) reality, but rather demonstrates that the original solipsistic assumptions our ancestors used to define God's spiritual nature were completely false. Objective reality actually is physical.

I think it is possible and even desirable for science and religion to peacefully co-exist, if Christians could realize that it was absolutely necessary for humanity to re-define reality as physical. Western civilization got off to a false start, but has recovered and has been thriving since the scientific revolution, and especially since Maxwell's equations were published in 1865. Even so, it would be the height of ignorance and arrogance to discard the accomplishments of the spiritual (solipsistic) approach to understanding the human condition. In order for humanity to benefit from a dualistic definition of reality, persons on either side of the "great divide" must learn that it is possible for both sides to be simultaneously correct. Scientists must learn that subjective experience and individual belief is perfectly valid when applied to issues pertaining to the human condition. Christians and other believers must learn that the laws of nature operate in the physical realm and are completely responsible for the way the universe actually operates. Scientists make fools of themselves whenever they attempt to apply physical laws to spiritual issues. Equally, believers make fools of themselves whenever they attempt to use spirituality to describe how the universe operates.

Science and religion are seperate disciplines, as immiscible as oil and water. Both science and religion have great value for humanity, but conflicts arise when people attempt to apply the answers of one discipline to the questions of the other. Is there a way to keep science and religion out of each other's backyard? Only if both parties agree to honor the other's expertise and to mind only their own business.