Why do Christians believe that God did not predestine when the bible itself says so? Have a look!?

Question

God intentionally creates men whose future He not only foresees, but predestine! Take a look for yourselves!

Rom.8:29-30
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate.... Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

And just to make it clearer, look through these verses and try to deny predestination!

Eph.1:4-5
He hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will.
2 Th.2:11-12
God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned.

Rom.9:11-22
For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth. .... For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? ... Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction.

2 Tim.1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began.
Jude 4
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation.

Acts 13:48
And as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

to nipple twister, no you're the one who's stupid! It shows that the bible is fake, duh!

Answer 1

i dont have a problem with predestination ... what i have a problem with is people 'thinking' they know what they are predestinated for and they can do whatever they want ...

Answer 2

If predestined in this context means that God decides everything ultimately then why does the verse go on to say those he predestined he also called. That would not make a lot of sense because predestined in our language would encompass everything so the verse would not need to include what else God did for believers. It would be like saying those the mass murder killed he also shot, it doesn't make any sense.So it is clear that predestined and calling have two different meanings in this passage. God has foreknowledge of the events that are going to take place in the future and that is essentially what predestined means in this context.

Answer 3

Firstly I don't believe in your god, but consider this... the writers are talking about themselves, *they* are chosen and predestined. What makes you think they are talking about *you* or others? If predestination were true then why do Christians witness, what's the use? And why didn't you post all the verses which clearly contradict predestination? There is not one single verse in the entire bible that supports your idea of predestination, not a single one.

Answer 4

If the verses you're quoting are to be understood the way you're suggesting, then it doesn't make a bit of difference what I do with my life because it's already been predetermined whether I'm going to heaven or hell, right? I can rape, murder and pillage free of guilt or consequence because I cannot change my final outcome, so why bother living a straight- laced, obedient lifestyle when I can live it up and enjoy myself and still come to the same conclusion.

Are you THAT stupid!!??

Of course you think that the bible is fake, you don't understand it! If you bothered to read the whole thing with the intention of understanding it, it would make more sense to you.

Answer 5

Biblical predestination means the God intended a certain outcome for certain persons.

In the end, God may actually bring that outcome about ... in some mysterious way.

In the mean time, free will is the only game in town.

Otherwise, there would really be no need of a redeemer, grace, a church to distribute that grace, or a Judgment Day ... because no one could be held responsible for their actions.

Not even Satan.

Answer 6

Yes, God created Adam with a will of his own too, and almost every one has since lived by their own will. Except Jesus who was being refered to in your first verse. Ones own will defeats the predestination, until one returns to Gods will through believing in Jesus. That many deny its influence is because predestination has the connotation of reincarnation attached to it, and that some may be damned even by believing in Jesus.

Answer 7

I think your problem is you are not understanding those who are predestined are those who are saved not by their individuality but that the lamb was slain before the foundation fo the world. Of course it is predestined that some will accept the atonement.It is God's people as a whole not as an individual, Christ was predestined and so is salvation. We as a people of God are predestined we as an individual are not.

Answer 8

Im Christian. Predestining By God May Be True

Answer 9

Here's a few more...
Psalms 100:3. Know ye that the Lord he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture.

John 10:
26. But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28. And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

John 6:37. All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

1 John 4: 19. We love him, because he first loved us.

Answer 10

Yip. It kinda blows a big hole in the over used "free will" argument. An omniscient god could not possibly give man free will. It's a logical fallacy.

So which is it? Is "God" omniscient or did he give man free will?

Once the Hellfires evolve enough to understand the problem with their religion mankind will be better off.

I don't think I can hold my breath that long............

Answer 11

I think it's possible that these verses just mean that God has known all along who would end up being saved and who wouldn't. He says that He wants everyone to come to Him, so He doesn't turn people away. I think He just knows that certain people will never come to Him.