Proving the canonicity of the bible?

Question

Can you prove me that the Bible is the rule basis in which God's total authorithy of humankind is revealed?

Answer 1

Well, this is a special type of problem.

First, the people who canonized the bible would disagree with your second statement.

The bible was canonized in order to have a clear lectionary for the services. The bible was considered true because it was used in the service, not the other way around. In other words, the service isn't valid because it uses the bible, the bible is valid because it was included in the Mass. At least that is the original thinkers view. It should therefore hold sway.

Originally there were many canons. Each Catholic bishop, as a successor to an apostle (see Acts 2 on the ordination of Mathias), was the spiritual leader of their community. The services in use even until today, are based upon either the service left by Peter, Mark or James. The services of Mark and James are still used today. The closest you get to Peter's service is the Roman rite's Vigil of the Resurrection.

As synods of bishops eventually gathered to discuss the books used in their services consensus formed around certain books such as Luke, but not others such as 2 John or Revelations or the Shephard of Hermas.

Anthanasius, who Protestants consider the Father of their canon, actually had 7 more books in the New Testament than modern Protestants.

Councils and Hippo Regius, Carthage and Rome sent their canons to the Pope of Rome for approval. Ultimately Pope Damasus issued the canon and the subject was closed until Luther reopened by rejecting papal authority and hence the authorizing party of the bible. Luther rechose the books excluding the "apocrypha," and James, Jude and Revelations. The canon has been open for discussion ever since.

So, if Peter's successors hold Peter's power to bind and loose, then it is proven since anything Peter or his successor does is bound in Heaven as though God himself did it. And the Petrine passage makes no authority if it ended with Peter's death.

I am an atheist, by the way. But if Christianity is valid, then its beliefs from the beginning should hold sway since truth cannot change. Therefore, depending on whether you accept Christianity or not, it is true or not.

Answer 2

Yes I can. But are you willing to investigate it for yourself, or just ignore it completely? The Bible is self evidencing. The New Testament writers confirmed each others writings to be God inspired. Each of the writers of the New Testament knew Jesus Christ personally, or had direct contact with the Apostles. There are over 5,000 ancient documents that confirm what is written in the Bible is exactly written and preserved from day one. The Old Testament was written and preserved by the priests. They were read aloud in their entirety to the nation of Isreal every seven years. When the scribes finished copying a document by hand, they would proof read it by counting the consonants, then the vowels, then the total amount of words, find the middle word of the document, and if any of these didn't match with the original, the new document was destroyed. This started from when God wrote the 10 commandments in stone for His people to preserve for ever.

Answer 3

the factor is that this, God suggested his observe will circulate forth & have particular fulfillment, so of course all different books that competed to get the two into the bible or get canonized all on there own have been certain to fail, why? given which you won't be able to win against God. stupid extremely to even try...The demon inspired books stated as the apocrypha virtually made it, yet ought to not stand the try of time...HA HA compliment JAH - the real & EVER living GOD

Answer 4

Hello!
No one can prove this to you apart from God Himself!
The word of God is alive and powerful sharper than any two edged sword piercing to the dividing asunder of the joints and the marrow and is a critic of thoughts and intents of the heart.
All scripture is God breathed!
If you mean business in finding these answers HE will reveal it to you!
Man cannot!
Take care!

Answer 5

The Roman military needed a new "Canon" to defeat the ORIGINAL Kingdom Gospel, so they put together the Pauline Gospel and turned that into their latest and very effective weapon. That weapon is being used very effectively to this very day... but the Original Kingdom Gospel is not dead.... it still lives in this book and a few others:

Answer 6

I'll give you one example why we can trust the Bible. The reason for this confident statement is that for the past one hundred and fifty years many brilliant scholars have conducted detailed archeological examinations at thousands of sites throughout the Middle East. The results of their discoveries have proven that the Bible is reliable and accurate in every single area where its statements could be tested.

Throughout most of the last 2000 years, the majority of men living in the western world have accepted the statements of the Scriptures as genuine. However, thousands of unbelieving critics have abandoned their faith in the Holy Scriptures. Despite the overwhelming success unbelieving critics have had in establishing their unbelieving attitudes within the seminaries, textbooks, and popular media, something strange began to occur. The new discoveries by archeologists digging at sites in the Middle East continued to produce fascinating finds that contradicted their attitutdes. Every new discovery in Israel and the surrounding nations provided tremendous confirmation of the accuracy of the Word of God in incredible ways. Jesus said, "The Rocks Would Cry Out." As a result of these continuing discoveries, Dr. Nelson Glueck, the most outstanding Jewish archeologist of this century, wrote in his book, Rivers in the Desert, this fascinating statement. "It may be stated categorically that no archaeological discovery has ever controverted a Biblical reference.

The Bible claims that it is the inspired and accurate Word of God. Therefore, it is vital that we compare the Scriptural records against the archeological discoveries uncovered at actual sites where many of the thrilling events of the Bible actually occurred. The results of these detailed investigations are available for anyone to examine.

Only 50 yrs. ago disbelieving scholars totally rejected the historical accuracy of the Bible because they claimed that the Scriptures talked about numerous kings and individuals that could not be confirmed from any other historical or archeological records. Recent discoveries, however, have shown that they should not have abandoned their faith in the Word of God so easily. If they had only trusted in the truthfulness of the Bible or waited a little longer they would have been rewarded with the recent archeological discoveries that confirm many biblical details, events, and personalities.

The English scholar, Sir William Ramsay and his books have overwhelming evidence proving the Bible's accuracy because he thoroughly researched the New Testament.

There are so many men who went after disproving the Bible and ending up proving it.

The Dead Sea Scrolls proved how much it had been tampered with and that was none.

Proving the canonicity of the Bible is something that you must do yourself. I could spend days with you or present many books for you to read, but this is something you must pursue.
You will spend years and eventually find out that the Bible is the inspired Word of the Living God. From Genesis to Revelation, it is all about Jesus Christ the Savior of the World.

Ratzinger (and I give him no respect) called protestants rebels and told us to abandon the authority of Scriptures. Before Ratzinger became Pope he said, "the Catholic church is wiser than the Bible and capable of contradicting it." This is heresy and blaspheming the Word of God. Both John Paul II and Ratzinger worship Mary and have every intention of making Mary co-redemptrix with Christ. The real Mary would rebuke them and tell them "listen to Jesus." The Roman Catholic Vatican has been preparing their evils for quite awhile. What would a Jew do if they saw a Statue of Mary in the Jewish Temple?

Matthew 24:3-5 "And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto Him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? And what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that noman deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Verse 11 and many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

1 Timothy 4:1-3 Now the Spirit speaks expressly that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; For bidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God has created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

Catholic church forbids priest to marry and Friday is fish day.

Now, read Revelation 17:1-6, 17:9 and 17:18 for yourself. The woman is the catholic church.

Even a Bishop of the Catholic church predicted years ago every Pope and that the next Pope Peter the Roman would be the False Prophet of Revelation.

In the Book of Jeremiah the old evil queen of heaven as they call Mary the queen of heaven or queen of hearts was not but an evil to the Lord.

Now, I am not saying that there are not born again believers in the catholic church because that is not true. I was recently in a catholic church that had no statues and seemed to be preaching the Word of God. Many Catholics believe the Pope is wrong about many things.

But it is testing time for America and we will choose whether we are God's people or whether we are serving Satan. Our time of destiny is upon us. Our hedge of protection came down on 9/11 and during Katrina and a snake bit us. Now is the time to read Romans 11 because the Gentiles are warned. Now is the time to read Leviticus 26:15-16 because we have had terror appointed over us.

Answer 7

Easily. But as the Bible runs over 3.6 million words, it is impossible to do it in the "postcard" space of a forum posting.

Answer 8

I know of no other.

The lives of Bible believers is the strongest proof.

Answer 9

I could sooner prove to you that JRR Tolkien actually found the account of the LOTR buried in the dirt and that the ring of power actually exists.

Answer 10

Where are the originals?

If you mean to refer to the Injeel (the book revealed to Jesus /Eesaa, may Allaah exalt his mention) by the term (original bible), then we do not know the location of the copy you are asking about. But what we can say surely and without any doubt is that the Injeel has been altered and changed by human beings throughout history and the original copy no longer exists.

Therefore, a Muslim has no need to search for its original copy after Allaah has sent the great Quran. Allaah Says (which means): {And is it not sufficient for them that We revealed to you the Book [i.e. the Quran] which is recited to them? Indeed in that is a mercy and reminder for a people who believe.}[Quran 29:51].

He also Says (which means): {And We have revealed to you, [O Muhammad, sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam], the Book [i.e. the Quran] in truth, confirming that which preceded it of the Scripture and as a criterion over it.}[Quran 5:48].

On the other hand, if by the term (original bible) you are referring to the book used by the Christians, then we say the following:

In the Quran Allaah informs us that He revealed a number of books, including the pages of Prophet Abraham, the Psalms of Prophet David, the Torah of Prophet Moses, the Injeel (Gospel) of Prophet Jesus, and finally, the Quran of Prophet Muhammad. Of these revealed texts only the Quran remains intact in its original form. All of the others (as complete books) have been lost, their remains have survived only as fragments or tampered with in some way so as to make their authenticity doubtful. No where in the Quran is the Bible even mentioned, to say nothing of its being among the revealed texts of Allaah, or as Christian claim "The Word of God." Further, we know from respected scholars that although some fragments of the Psalms, the Torah, and the Injeel (the teachings of Prophet Jesus) may be found in the Bible, comprised of the Old and New Testaments, the Bible can not rightfully be called "The Word of God." Why is this so?

As one publisher (Tyndale House Publishers, Inc., Wheaton, Illinois) stated: 'The Bible may look like one book, but it is actually sixty-six books in one. Thirty-nine books make up what we call the Old Testament, and twenty-seven make up the New Testament. It is possible that more than forty writers were used by God to write all sixty-six books.' (Quoted from the "Holy Bible" – New Living Translation, Gift & Award Edition, l997, p. vii)

So if the Bible is neither narrated by God nor written by Him, and, as such, is not ‘the word of God,' then what is it? By any objective criteria, the Bible is a book containing a compilation of stories, legends, folk tales, folk lore, myths, sagas, narratives, poetry, fragments of scriptures (fragments from the Psalms, the Torah, and the Injeel as already mentioned), letters (esp. in New Testament), visions, dreams, accounts of events from doubtful sources (not eye witnesses), editors’ or scribes’ notes, as well as human errors.

For those who believe in it, it is a book that has historical, cultural, moral and ethical values, and a source of spiritual teaching and guidance. It is a book held in high esteem, primarily by Christians who see it as a divine book and the source of their religious beliefs. But, in the final analysis it is only a book with many limitations and imperfections which disqualify it from being called "The Word of God." Whoever makes such a claim then the burden of proof rests with him. On the contrary, the Glorious Quran is the Speech of Allaah and, through the Angel Gabriel, was revealed to Prophet Muhammad, sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam; later compiled into a book more than 14 centuries ago it remains in its original form until today.

Some common misunderstandings about the Bible include the following:

* The Bible is one book, the Old Testament. The Bible contains sixty-six books (or more depending upon the denomination one belongs to).

* The Old Testament (OT) is the Torah followed by the Jews. The OT contains some fragments of the Torah which was lost and the Psalms, but the Talmud is the book followed by the Jews and is totally unrelated to the Bible.

* The New Testament (NT) is the Gospel of Prophet Jesus, or the Injeel. It is neither. It is made up of twenty-seven books, none of which was narrated or written by Prophet Jesus although the NT may contain fragments of the Injeel (sayings and teachings of Prophet Jesus). The Injeel as revealed through Prophet Jesus has been lost. The fragments which may be cited in the NT may not be authentic or in their proper context. So it is erroneous to equate the NT with the Injeel mentioned in the Quran.

* The Bible is a holy book, narrated, dictated by God and is infallible. While this is a claim, this misconception has already been addressed. Since the Bible is 'only' a book, there is no need to call it a forgery, a corrupted text, etc. The Quran is the only authentic "Word of God," His Speech, and Allaah has promised to protect it from distortion of any kind until the Day of Judgment and He has kept His promise. Not one letter or syllable has been changed over the past l4 centuries.



What are the difference between Torah and Qur'an?

The common ground between the Noble Qur'an and the Torah is that both are Books revealed by Allah the Exalted through the Archangel Jibreel (Gabriel), peace be upon him. Yet, the essential differences between these two Books are the following: 1) The Holy Qur'an is preserved by Allah Almighty against interpolation and adulteration, as Allah Says (interpretation of meaning): Verily We: It is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e. the Qur'ân) and surely, We will guard it (from corruption)[15:9]. As for the Torah, it did not escape such interpolation and adulteration. 2) The Holy Qur'an was sent down on Allah's Messenger, Muhammad, sporadically (in steps) according to separate occasions and events, while the Torah was revealed all at once. 3) The Qur'an constitutes a commanding law whose validity is continuous till Doomsday, whereas the Torah was abrogated by the Qur'an being the last revealed Book and being supremely predominant over all of the previous Scriptures. Allah Almighty Says: And We have sent down to you (O Muhammad SAW) the Book (this Qur'ân) in truth, confirming the Scripture that came before it and Mohayminan (trustworthy in highness and a witness) over it (old Scriptures)[5:48]


Do the Words 'Torat' and 'Injeel' in the Qur'an refer to the Original Uncorrupted Scriptures?

Question:

In your response to the recent article "If the Bible is corrupted..." (17th January), I feel it is also worth mentioning that the verses in question, (10,64) and (5,68) and other related verses obviously do not, and cannot refer to the "mainstream" scriptures that were/are corrupted in possession at the time of the Prophet (pbuh) and those that we have now.

I think, from my general understanding of these verses, the Qur'an obviously refers to the true, original, uncorrupted scriptures that were given to the people aforetime (i.e. Jews and Christians). This is especially apparent in Surah 5, verse 68.

So the Torah and the Injil mentioned in the Qur'an most certainly cannot be the "Old Testament", the "Pentateuch" or the "New Testament" as we have today, but the original Torah and Gospel as was revealed to both Moses (pbuh) and Jesus (pbuh).

Therefore is it not better understood logically that these verses in fact refer to the scriptures that were revealed in a pure state and not the corrupted versions?

Answer:

The Qur'an, by the names 'Torah' and 'Injeel' refers to what was called 'Torah' and 'Injeel' in the environment in which the Qur'an was revealed. It is obvious that had the Qur'an implied something else by these words, it was then necessary to clarify that the words were being used to imply something different from what they were commonly used in the environment. It should be kept in mind that the implication of words in a good piece of literature cannot be against the common usage of such words. If such is the case, it can only be considered a flaw of that piece of literature. For example, in the contemporary English language, the phrase "the prophet" (in singular form) is used only for Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him)[1]. If any contemporary English writer uses the phrase to imply any other person, it would only be considered a serious mistake and flaw in his writing, unless he/she explicitly or implicitly[2] clarifies in his writing that the phrase has been used in a meaning different from its generally understood connotation.

It may, however, be noted that the 'Torah' and the 'Injeel' (especially the Injeel) that we have in our hands today are not necessarily the ones which were referred to as the Torah and the Injeel by the first addressees of the Qur'an. This is substantiated by a few references of the Qur'an to the Jews and Christians living in the environment of the revelation of the Qur'an. For instance, the Qur'an has referred to a particular sect of Jews, who hold "`uzair" to be the son of God. This obviously is a reference to a particular sect of Jews, who held `uzair to be the Son of God (as the mainstream Jews do not, generally, ascribe to this belief). Furthermore, it should be interesting to note that the Qur'an has referred to the Christians in its environment, by the name of "Nasaara", while, it is known that the general (mainstream) Christians had come to be known as "Christians" or "Maseehee" from a very early period of Christianity (as is mentioned in the Biblical book "Acts of the Prophets"). In view of this fact, it seems quite plausible that the Christians living in the Arabian Peninsula at the time of the revelation of the Qur'an were generally those who ascribed to the Nazarene creed. The Nazarenes were a Syrian Judeo-Christian sect that came to be recognized in the fourth century AD. According to the Encyclopedia Britannica:

Although they [the Nazarenes] accepted the divinity of Christ and his supernatural birth, the Nazarenes also maintained strict observance of Jewish laws and customs, a practice that had been dropped by the majority of Jewish Christians. They used a version of the Gospel in Aramaic called the Gospel According to the Hebrews, or the Gospel of the Nazarenes.

However, it is extremely unfortunate that the Injeel according to the Hebrews or the Gospel of the Nazarenes (which was probably the book referred to as 'Injeel' in the environment in which the Qur'an was revealed) is nowhere to be found anymore, as has been mentioned in the quote of the Encyclopedia.

This is my opinion regarding the references of the Qur'an to the two books. However, do let me know if I have failed to fully clarify my point of view.


[1] Refer to the word 'Prophet' in the Oxford Advanced Learner's Encyclopedic Dictionary, third impression, 1995.

[2] Implicit clarification may be through the context in which the word is being used.


The Qur'ân came to humanity after all the previous revealed scriptures had either been lost or, like the Torah and the Gospel , corrupted. Allah speaks about how people had corrupted the scriptures, saying: “Woe to those who write the Book with their own hands and then say: ‘This is from Allah' to gain from it a paltry price. So woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they gain from it.” [ Sûrah al-Baqarah : 79]

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