What are trainers problems with Cesar Millan- specifically-& in comparrison w/ certain training techniques?

Question

I want to know what the is sooooo horrible about his ideologies and methods, specifically . Please give me proven comparrisons that greatly differ from his techniques ie "Cesar says to do this & why... BUT the correct way is this...... & why."

Answer 1

First of all, to say those that disagree with Cesar are jealous is incorrect, and is disrespectful to the opinions, education, and experience of the professionals you think are "jealous". I started out training using methods very similar to his. About 10+ years ago I had an epiphany for lack of a better word, and started to learn about Positive Reinforcement (+R) and have not looked back. I obtain better results, and I too, work with aggressive dogs.

In reality if you do the research most of the challenges for dominance come from the middle dogs. The Alpha or leader doesn't need to pick fights or bully because they are in charge, they will finish it if necessary, but it rarely requires or results in physical injury (unless we butt in and make things worse). The "alpha roll" used a lot by Cesar has been found by further research to be mostly voluntary, meaning the subordinate voluntarily rolls over for the "leader". The confident leader uses mostly body language to show leadership, animals in general are masters at reading body language. "Don't count the fights, count the Vet visits" is a quote that can be heard from many canine behavior experts. If you have too many Vet visits it is time to consider re-homing one of the dogs. As with people, some dogs are just not going to get along.

Dogs are not wolves, but man has manipulated canines for thousands of years, and have bred out the wolf behaviors they didn't want and have kept those they do. Dogs have bits of wolf behavior but are not wolves. Any animal that lives in packs or groups have "pack behavior" with minor differences here and there, and a good leader is benevolent not a bully or tyrant that uses fear and/or force to control. The squabbles are usually between the middle pack members, the leader usually doesn't step in unless it is in danger of escalating to physical injury (who hasn't lost it on occasion). Leaders may not give "clicks" as one person noted but they do give "rewards" or "reinforcements" which is more accurate. They allow the subordinate to play with them, share a meal/toy with them, etc. A good leader is not all about "Punishment" -consequences in life are inevitable but they need not be painful or fear inducing.

Punishment may suppress the behaviors but they can still be there until the dog reaches a threshold it cannot tolerate, and punishment, can in fact exacerbate aggression, fear, etc. Counter Conditioning and Desensitization works much better, and please do not poo poo what I just stated. I have used the methods and seen them work. You can not "cure" aggression, fear, etc., you treat it.

There tend to be more injuries among dogs fighting for position (female-female tend to have some of the most violent as do adolescent males) than among wolves which makes sense since all wolf pack members are needed for the well being of the pack-you cannot eat if everyone is torn up from fighting to hunt. Dogs on the other hand can and do fight to great injury, but to reiterate, dogs are not wolves

There are surprisingly easy, and gentle methods to get leadership of your dog. The NILIF program is one of the best ways to get started, it means Nothing In Life Is Free, your dog needs to earn EVERYTHING. Not leaving the food down all the time and requiring a sit to eat, go out, come in, to play, get affection, etc is a powerful tool to show who's in charge. We humans give our "power" away too easily, we come home and make a big fuss over our "babies" and end up giving them the greeting that is reserved for the leader.

One episode dealing with a dog with OCD (Obsessive Compulsive Disorder) although in the veterinary field it is refer to as CCD or Canine Compulsive Disorder, the medical issue was ignored, (though this is usually treated with pharmaceuticals and behavioral modification if severe and just behavioral modification if mild, since if you force the dog to quit one behavior it will often channel it to another the same problem for humans by the way). Cesar said the dog was trying to "dominate" his owners, that is incorrect. It is a medical condition that involves an imbalance in the brain chemistry.

And yes, there are resources that address this. When I speak of Behavioral Modification I am speaking of actual methods similar to those used in the medical field. Most common are the Counter Conditioning and Desensitization protocols. Much too in depth to go into here. I have an AS in Science, majoring in Veterinary Technology, and a Registered Veterinary Technician, I have been a dog trainer for almost 20 years but a +R trainer a little over 10. I have done my research on the research, and presented a paper and presentation on animal behavior in school. To say I am "jealous" of Cesar is silly and disrespectful of the time and effort I have taken to educate myself about canine behavior and training techniques. There are comparisons, genuine research, and references out there for the original question writer, if you want to really look for them.

For any pet guardian/owner -do your research, just because someone says this is this or that is that check it out. Anyone who would try to shame you with the old "well I have been doing this for blah, blah, and what do you know" should be passed by. If they treat you with such disregard how will they treat your pet? For the record I was considered a good trainer when I did force based training, received referrals, etc. so what would make me take a look at what I was doing, come to the conclusion it was wrong and change my whole method, outlook, etc. That story is too long, but it is a good question to ponder. And I am still considered a very good dog trainer.

I hope this answers some of your question, and is of some help.

Answer 2

Well Cesar is not actually a trainer, at least he does not call himself a trainer. He calls himself a "dog psychologist". In fact when I have watch, and I do watch, he had not "trained" the dogs to do anything. He does help people to relate to dogs better. Many people do let the dogs get the upper hand because they don't know how to relate to the dog.

The techniques Cesar uses are based on dominance. A theory that was popular many many years ago. You have to be very experienced and have a much greater understanding of dogs than the average owner has. The reason why this is so bad, is that it can go very very wrong, very very quickly. If you have watched the show much, you have seen Cesar actually get bit. If you make a mistake using alpha rolls and what not, you can actually make a dog aggressive.

Now I think that Cesar's methods may work with a small percentage of dogs. I am sure that he has saved dogs, but I would not want him to work with my dogs. He does have a good handle on dogs that are more dominate in general, dogs that do need a heavier hand. That is not your average dog. And if you start working with your dog as a puppy using positive methods, you dog should never need to trained using Cesar's methods.

Now the other method that is much more popular today is called Positive Dog training. It is a much more user friendly, both for the owner and the dog. If you make a mistake using positive methods it just take longer to train you dog, not make them aggressive or leave lasting scars on the dog.

In positive methods, the dog is rewarded for doing the right thing, not punished for making the wrong decision. My dogs are trained using positive methods and one of the results is that my dogs want to be with me. In fact I do most of my training off leash because they just want to try and please me to get the treat. They think training is a game and in the end we both have fun.

Do some research of both methods and see which you like better.

Answer 3

I agree completely with Beth L. Just wanted to add a specific example to what she talked about.
There was an episode where Cesar went to a womens' prison to show the inmates how to handle dogs with problems. One dog, a large mixed breed, was fine but hated having his nails trimmed. How did Cesar do it? Well he pinned the dog to the ground and forcibly held him there while his nails were trimmed. And what happened? The dog freaked, struggled like crazy, and Cesar got bit twice and scratched in the nose. Now how is that supposed to teach the dog that getting its nails clipped is nothing to worry about?

A better method is to give the dog a treat every time you bring the clippers out, until it associates the clippers with a treat. Then you just touch one nail or a paw and give a treat, then you work up to clipping one nail, JUST ONE and give a treat. Then you work up to where you can do one paw. Then another, then finally all four. It takes a long time, maybe several weeks. But it teaches the dog that there is nothing to fear, that getting its nails clipped can be a positive experience. Something that pinning it down and forcing it to take it will never do.

For more information, here is an article that interviewed Dr. Ian Dunbar, a very well-respected dog trainer, which pretty much sums up Cesar's critics' arguments.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/10/15/CMGPHL9D1N1.DTL

Answer 4

First of all, I have to compliment him. He's done a terrific job at selling himself. More power to him. Additionally, there is a group of people out in the world that simply have a talent with animals. They just seem to do the right thing at the right time. That is also commendable.

From the perspective of training dogs, there is a HUGE variety of approaches and ideas. People gravitate to what they feel works for them. Nothing wrong with that, UP TO A POINT.

The problem arises when you are doing things that appear to you to be the right thing and in reality they are the wrong thing.

Example. There is a number of parents out there who feel that the correct way to discipline a child is to spank it. That would be fine IF spanking was all at a specific level. Say 3 on a scale of 1 to 10. UNFORTUNATELY, there are some people who are at the 8 or 9 of our scale. That's where problems arise.

There is also a HUGE difference between being good with animals and doing things that are backed up by GOOD scientific methods. This isn't just theory types of things. These are things that will produce the same results time and time again.

Complicating this entire mess are folks who call themselves behaviorists, etc. who don't have ANY scientific background behind them. The other side of this are folks such as Ian Dunbar, who ARE respected in their fields.

Cesar is recommending a variety of things that can get people VERY HURT. Alpha rolls are a prime example. The downside to these is creating a dog that is MUCH MORE aggressive than you began with. Someone's going to get hurt very badly.

Some of his techniques are fine at the level he uses, but NOT at higher levels. He doesn't go into this. NOTICE the program specifically warns people NOT to try this at home.

Wolf/Dog Pack behavior that Mr. Milan bases a lot of his training methods on has been disproven a LONG time ago. Additionally, L. David Mech never intended those theories to be applied to dogs. Dominating dogs falls into a MACHO type of mentality that, while comfortable for some, can do some real damage.

Finally. This entire program is edited! You don't get to see the disasters that don't appear on TV.

False sense of reality and accomplishment.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/10/15/CMGPHL9D1N1.DTL

Answer 5

Look, there are always discrepancies with techniques. Dog Whisperer isn't going to show the unsuccessful stories. And there isn't another dog trainer alive with a 100% success rate either. In truth, there are many different means to get the same results, no matter what you are doing. So, if you have a personal preference for the techniques you've seen Cesar use, then follow suit. If it doesn't work for you, then seek the advice of another professional trainer. And keep in mind thhat with Cesars popularity and success comes video and book deals which may cause a loss in the profits of other dog trainers. You always have at least 1 thing negative to say about your competition don't you...even if it may not be true.

Answer 6

I have two issues with his TV show (note I did not say "methods of training")...

1. He tends to be very confrontational with dogs, which is fine if you are someone with the ability to cope with a large aggressive dog you have just challenged... it is not so great if you're some owner who has already allowed the dog to be out of control and you have no real notion how to project authority.

I get to make quite a bit of income training humans how to train their dogs after they've been bitten.. "but Cesar Millan said I should sssst-bite the dog with my hand!" and the dog corrected them.

2. His tv show gives people the false impression that there is an instant fix. Often, especially with dog aggression, it can take weeks of rehab work to get a dog to give up the notion it should react. Yes, there are some behaviors I can cure pretty quickly... but not all... and certainly not all withing 20 minutes.

Answer 7

I agree with Animal Artwork. I have both season 1 and season 2 of Cesar. Cesar has a way with dogs - a way that most people cannot replicate or reproduce. He does exactly what animal artwork says - he challenges aggressive dogs and can work with them and control them. What do most people do when they see/deal with an aggressive dog - they react with fear. I believe that is why is new videos say, Don't try this at home by yourself folks. nor would i!

To his critics - he now shows follow-ups (weeks later) for the dogs and people that he is working with - so you can't criticize that anymore. He does go back, sometimes as many as 3 or 4 times later to continue working on issues.

To those that say, well he doesn't show you the dogs he couldn't/didn't help - would you? If you were selling a TV show do you think showing episodes where things didn't work would sell DVDs? In his book, he does mention dogs that he was not able to help. No trainer has a 100% success rate but most people don't want to see failures (well, some of us might, just to gloat). Success sells.

I don't have any problems with him. I know that I am not going to be able to repeat/re-enact/get his results. But what he does for me is simply inspire me to work with my dogs, to seek out training and obedience for me and my dogs.

To those that have a problem with corrections - get over yourself. Think about a dog in a pack - does the alpha ever give treats? Give clicks? No, the alpha disciplines - harshly, but when needed. Dogs are animals. Animals. They have their own way of communicating, and rationalization and treats doesn't always work.

Answer 8

Cesar is NOT a trainer, he is an actor. He has been preaching about the same thing that serious dog trainers have for 30 years. The problem is not his ideas, which like I said, are nothing new. The problem is that a dog needs more then what he talks about. It needs training and it needs corrections and it needs praise, among other things. He has found a market nich and capitalized on it, made a ton of money and that is great, but, what he does is not dog training, it is fooling gullible people. Hope I helped.

Answer 9

First, Cesar doesn't train dogs; he rehabilitates phsycholocially unbalanced dogs. What he does is based primarily through the observations made by him while watching dogs in their natural state. I find what he does perfectly fine. The only problem I have is for those who think they know how to handle a situation, Cesar's Way, without actually havinght first clue.

For DA-His leash corrections are not punative. How does one dog correct another dog in nature? With a bite or a stare or an alpha roll. I hardly find a quick tug on a leash as punative. As a child, how do you learn that fire or flames are hot? You don't listen to the words of someone but test it for yourself by putting your hand near the flame. What do you suggest when your dog aggressively attacks another dog while our for a walk? Say, "Bad doggie; that's not right." Let me show you how to be nice then we can try this again. C'mon.

Answer 10

Well he doesn't train the dog, he trains the owner. I liked the show for a while but every episode was the same. Walk the dog on a leash. Be the pack leader.

I still like what he does, just dont watch the show.

Answer 11

I think it may be because not everyone has a "pack" setting available to them in real life to help with the training. He has like 30 dogs at his place and they share in the training. This is not very practical in everyday life. There are many great books on training from your local library. I'd start there.