The revealing truth that will shake the very foundation of Christianity! A Must Read! You'd never thought!

Question

After you’ve read through this, I guarantee that you’re eyes will be opened in such a way you’ve never imagined. It might seem long, but once you’ve gotten into it, you’ll be done before you even realize it! You do not want to skip a line, trust me!

We here assume that everything the Bible says is true.

Given: If man doesn’t accept Jesus as his Savior, he will not be saved.

Question: Does God deliberately create people that He intentionally does not save? Thus, does God predestine the faith of man, or does He merely foresee the future and ultimately leave the choice upon man’s shoulder?

One must ask, in what way does God expect man to believe in Him? Generally speaking, the only reference we have to His existence is the “Bible”. So it is safe to say that God wants man to believe in Him through uncertainty or what Christians call “faith”.

To say that man himself chooses not to enter heaven is rather flawed. Why? Because God doesn’t make His existence obvious. If one points at an eagle and claims it can fly, it is obvious, because one can witness it with his own eyes, which differs from God’s existence. So one can at best say that man chooses not to believe in God because His existence is not convincing enough, one CANNOT say that man chooses not to enter heaven.

So what is the purpose then? Why doesn’t God just appear in front of everyone and make His existence obvious? One could then reason that it is necessary for man to accept Jesus Christ as their savior through faith alone for some divine reason.

But then the big question arises. What about unborn babies? What about those that lived before Jesus was born? What about those who lived through Jesus’ era but never got the chance to hear about Him?

One might reason that at Judgment Day these people will have the chance to accept or reject Jesus. But this reasoning is very flawed. If Jesus comes down from the sky and appears in front of everyone in our spherical word simultaneously, who would not accept Him if accepting or rejecting Him would mean the choice between hell and heaven? And obviously, if those people accept Jesus, it is not through faith, because Jesus is standing in front of them and is making His existence obvious. So ultimately this reasoning would contradict with the reasoning that man must accept Jesus through faith alone. So what happens to these people? Unborn babies could not have accepted Jesus through faith because they weren’t even born yet. Now one might reason that God had already foreseen whether or not these babies would accept or reject Jesus if they got the chance to live anyway.

This reasoning is equally flawed, because it would point to predestination. If God already knows who is going to accept or reject Him anyway, He could as well skip the whole process and go straight to Judgment Day. How is it fair that unborn babies do not have to go through any temptation like everyone else does? If unborn babies got the chance to live through an actual life, one might say that God only foresees but doesn’t predestine. But if unborn babies don’t go through an actual life, it is called predestination. And why would God create people that He already knows is going to burn in the lake of fire? Why would God create Satan if He knew Satan was going to rebel?

One must also ask, why do angels not have to accept God through “faith” before entering heaven? If faith is so essential in entering heaven, why do angels get a free pass? One might reason that humans have free-will, and therefore they must prove their faith before entering heaven. This reasoning is also flawed. Why? Because angels also have free-will, namely Lucifer and the fallen angels. This also means that the angels that currently live in heaven can at any given day decide to betray God through free-will like the fallen angels once did! And don’t forget that those angels are revealed to God’s existence as a fact, whereas humans are only given information about Him through the bible. Even angels that were more or less exposed to God’s love betrayed Him, so what would leave out the possibility of humans betraying God once they get to heaven?

Next we must determine whether or not it’s fair, moral, and practical to save people based on their divine belief? At the present, there are many places and regions on earth where people have never even heard of Jesus. Take for example tribal, uneducated people who live in the mountain forests of Laos. This is just one tiny example. How is it fair to say that these people themselves choose not to accept Jesus as their savior when they’ve never even heard of Him? In the bible it does say that everyone has been given enough information about God, so there’s no excuse for not accepting Him. This statement is obviously false. Now lets us take a look at those who have heard about Jesus but don’t believe in Him? Is it fair that they should be rejected from heaven

Now don’t forget that there are so many religions in the world, and each religion has its own way of justifying itself. Each religion is generally speaking equally difficult to disprove. In this sense, for example, how would it be fair to judge someone who believes in Jesus or Buddha differently when both are equally believable?

Is it fair to judge someone based on their belief rather than judging someone based on their moral being? In that sense, Buddha, Gandhi, and everyone who lived a very righteous life will not be saved, while Hitler, the KKK, those Christians who killed women who they called witches back then, and all other wicked Christians all goes to heaven just because they accepted Jesus as their savior.

So next time, before you say that man himself chooses not to go to heaven, think about what I’ve just said!

Answer 1

I read through all the answers you have gotten, and none of the Christians could grasp your points. That is very sad! They have every right to believe whatever they choose, but they don't have any right whatsoever, to tell the rest of us that if we don't or can't believe as they do, we are all doomed to eternal damnation. God has never intended for us to all believe the same thing, nor does he/she want us to. Until they understand this, they will remain deluded, and they will continue to do great harm to others with that fallacious attitude. *sm*

Answer 2

If you are a Christian, you cannot believe that everything in the bible is true. There is no way a Christian can reconcile all the laws below with the teachings of Jesus:

Lev 19:19 ?check the label, for goodness' sake!
Lev 21:20 ?need glasses?
Lev 15:19-24 ?haha
Lev. 25:44 ?uh oh...
Lev 11:10 ?hungry?
Exodus 21:7 ?What would Dr. Spock say?
Exodus 35:2 ?Working overtime?
Leviticus 18:22 ?Death is the last great adventure!


May you come to know the Lord Jesus, and have a peaceful eternity.

Answer 3

You have taken the worst examples of people claiming to be Christian (such as Hitler) and pitted them against the best that the rest of the world has to offer (such as Ghandi). Instead you should make equal comparisons -- best vs best, average vs average, worst vs worst.

Furthermore, your copied tract assumes that Christians believe that all who profess themselves to be Christian are saved. This simply is not true. True conversion is necessary to enter the Christian heaven. True conversion is manifest through good works.

OTOH, my particular denomination believes that God uses rewards more than punishment. We are all rewarded according to the quality of life we lead with regards to how much truth / enlightenment we have received. We all are rewarded to varying degrees, and yes, one must be truly converted to attain the highest degree. The Prophet of my sect even praised the life led by Pope John Paul II. We often use the example of Mother Theresa as a Christian role model.

Answer 4

I hope they get it (but I won't hold my breath).

On the predestination... it's odd really. If God predestines everyone... then he predestined me to be a Pagan (and therefore to go to hell). But if it's God's will that I be a Pagan... then am I not doing God's will? And how can God send someone to hell for being exactly what he predestined them to be?

No, most of the doctrines do not fit. And what's even more annoying is when they claim you have to have the Holy Spirit to understand. Well if they have the Holy Spirit, then they should be able to explain it in a way that those of us who are lost can understand (since God didn't send the Holy Spirit to us to help us out - again, how could that be our fault if God doesn't send the Holy Spirit to us?)... but I have yet to find anyone who can discuss these things without giving the cop-outs and dodges.

Awesome question!!

BB

Answer 5

I remain unaffected. God decides who He will call. He doesn't choose everyone.

If you can understand it, Romans Chapter 9 is all about God's deciding whether one person is even capable of being saved, while God raises some people up to die.

John 6:44 tells you that God determines who He wants, and no others can come to Jesus but them. That's why I don't try to preach the Gospel to EVERYBODY. Because God does not want EVERYBODY.

Answer 6

Jesus came for us to have life more abundantly, he never came to judge us, only to make our lives better, if people choose not to exept him,tough luck,they dwelled in darkness, if they dont want to switch on the light ,tough luck.Only through the teachings and of following Jesus will we become free from fear ,depression,and intolerance.it is the warped ideas of the christian church that says that you will go to hell if you do not exept Jesus, Jesus himself never said that. you can choose do you want to be saved as to become happy in life or dont you want to be saved as to become depressed. it is an individual choice.it is not for others to judge the decision.God is love,he is not the devil god that is worshipped by ignorant people of the church that claim that he is the great God of wrath. 2 thes 2 verse3,4.We are God incarnated.The devil wants us to worship him,because he wants to be higher than God. Jesus only come to teach us to re exept our divinity read john 17 verse 21. the devil didnt like it ,that is why he had Jesus murdered, not God that crucified his own son for our sins. that is what the devil wants us to believe That is why people with intelect are atheists, because they believe the wrong. if they exept the truth ,then they will exept Jesus, but while the church is worshipping the devil on Gods throne the highly intelectual atheists will never exept Jesus.only through study and the holy spirit will people come to the truth about God.the christian devil is the real God and the christian god is the devil. how many times will the christians read past john8 verse 44 and matthew 23 and john 10 verse 33 to 36 and try to explain the truth in falseness

then the christians still have the audacity to paste Jesus Christ on their church and use his name in damnation to others

Answer 7

i will try to answer every point.
1.Does God De...... You answered it yourself at the end of that question
2.One must ask...... Yes. "Blessed is he that believes without seeing". (He that seeks shall find)
3.to say that man..... It is pretty obvious. thats why every culture in the history of the world has believed in the concept.2nd point. People can see and still not believe, it has happened.3rd point.The bible says that people have the "prophets and scriptures" when someone brought up a similar "just show them and theyll believe" scenerio. He also said "a wicked generation seeks a sign".4th point. every man
that has sinned has chosen no heaven, but if you repent God forgives you, so basically by default every man and woman has chosen no anyways, so the "just cus he didnt believe" argument is weak since its the lack of forgiveness that is the culprit here.
4. so what is the purpo..(see "3")
5.but then the.... Unborn babies are guiltless and thus get a free pass since they dont need forgiveness.the others have also done things they knew were wrong at some point, but if they never did, then God might let it slide. The Bible doesnt give a definitive answer, but it implies that there is some slack for those that dont know, but that they might be judged by what they knew. if they were good people, then they didnt need forgiveness.
6.One might reason that...Firstly, the book of Job one of the oldest books in the bible and other books in the old testament already had claimed the the world was round, and was suspended in nothingness(space) .thousands of years ago they knew that already.and even if the world was flat, you would still say something like" what about all the mountains in the way" or something implying a normal occurence would be going down. so now that i smashed on your liminal joke. The babies thing (see 5).the people thing (see 5)
7.this reaso.......The bible gives the impression that some people are extra special to God and Gods cause and they mightve been pre-selected and were gonna be believers no matter what. Most people dont get this treatment. He can do this because He is God and he said " ill have mercy on who ill have mercy" , meaning if he wants to be extra nice to someone ,He can. If you have the love that the Bible describes, you wouldnt have that " thats not fair!" mentality because you would be glad for that person.about the unborn babies getting a free pass not being fair. Jesus also gave a parable about people working for someone .The man hired someone in the morning and told them what they would get paid. he also hired people in the middle of the day and at night. when the day was over, he payed everyone there pay, which was the same amout. the people that worked all day got mad and said "why do they get the same if they worked less", the man replied "Friend, i am doing you no harm. Did you not agree with me for a denarius(money). Take what is yours and go your way.I wish to give to this last man the same as to you.Is it not lawful for me to do what i wish with my own things?Or is your evil because I am good?" .the other part was "why not just skip ahead if he knows", because if we never did it we would be blameless. and all this can also be answered with "because He gave us freewill".
8.One must als.......You should be glad for this scenario we are in because we both (fallen angels and humans) have fallen from heaven per say , but WE are given the opportunity to be restored . you are looking at it the wrong way. you say that angels started off good woth God, so did we. but Adam sinned, and we have all sinned, but God lets us come back to be good with him, so we got it better than the angels.We wont betray Him because we will be transformed and be like Jesus says the bible. we wont just be "real christians" versions of us, our whole nature will be a completely new one.
9.Next we must... (see 5). and it is true that everyone has knowledge that stealing,killing,raping,lying etc is wrong. thats what it means when "they know enough" . And they have a better chance at repenting if they hear the good news that God is longing to reconcile with mankind like the bible says.
10 & 11.now dont for & Is it fair....If someone claims to believe in Jesus, that doesnt mean they are saved. If they hate, then they dont know God ,says the bible. it says" if someone claims to love God but hates his brother he is a lier ". so i dont think that pilgrims that burned people were really christian . Buddha isnt a God, a buddha is basically someone that teaches Buddhism. so its not really another God. Gandhi was a racist that hated black people and ran campaigns against them. For the most part as far as a "God" is concerned , there is only one . most other
gods from the old times died out, but the one God of the old testament is the same God that jews, muslims and christians claim to serve . so there really isnt any other "religion" they all believe the old testament, which points to Jesus many times. the muslims also claim to read the new testament . so its really an issue about "The bible" or "not" . like i said the bible says " he that seeks shall find, knock and it shall be opened" . im not saying people are extra bad for not "searching" for God, because maybe they didnt have the same luxory as i did, i had an uncle that gave me bible studies and helped me learn, so i dont feel any better than people that practice some religion and never had the same opportunity as i had. My uncle wasnt taught by anyone, he was just praying one day for God to reveal Himself to him and he did. Not everybody will do it like that. that is why it is our job to preach to people. but nonetheless , "everyone has sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" says the bible, so everyone deserves to not be saved by default, so nobody can complain that God is unfair, because if 10 people deserve to die but mercy is given to 2 people, the 10 other 8 still deserve to die. God knew like you would exist so he answered all your questions in the Bible. I hope this was helpful to someone . I come in peace, and God Bless

Answer 8

Of course, you have a solid argument, but that doesn't mean that christians will take note or pay attention, they may even ignore the parts of your argument that they don't like. I personally understand your reasoning, as I've come to this same conclusion myself, but I also know that many others lack the will and/or ability to see this subject objectively. Thanks for sharing, hopefully you've gotten through to at least one of them.

Answer 9

that a very long question considering that it isnt going to get you anywhere, if your new to hee then i should tell you, all christians ignore all questions that challenge them or they will give a silly answer like "god bless you", i think its certain that all of them examples have been asked here 1 million times, but no one will answer, cause they just run away!

Answer 10

Yeah, I own "The Atheist Debater's Handbook" too. You put way too much work into a completely unoriginal thought.

This statement gets posted on this forum about a dozen times a day, though not to the mind-numbing detail that you felt it necessary to subject us to. Has it shaken anyone yet? No, not really... we all still believe exactly what we believe.