How can atheists say that the God of the Bible is not a just God?

Question

What is the source of your sense of justice?
There is no such thing as relative justice, it is a contradiction of terms. In order for one's sense of justice to have meaning, it must be based on a firm moral standard.
So by saying that God is not just, you are expressing your sense of justice. What we observe is that moral sensibilities are properties of personal beings, not natural forces. But what kind of being would be 1)personal, 2)beyond humanity, and 3) have moral sensibilities? The answer: God!

Therefore, the sense of justice actually confirms the existence of the thing (God) being questioned, for only a personal, transcendent, holy god is a sufficient moral basis for ou sense of justic. Things cannot be ultimately just unless there is an ultimate justice, aka God.
God has given everyone an awareness of who He is through general revelation, which includes disclosure of God through creation and conscience.
Therefore, God cannot be denied. God is.

Skalite: Where are my logical fallacies?
And everyone else: You are proving the existence of God by speaking of justice because true justice comes from God, otherwise it is not justice. We cannot determine what justice is, only God can. So your sense of justice is from God and in order for it to be from God, God must exist. Therefore, God exists and your words are proof. God does exist. It is futile for you to keep denying it.

Answer 1

3) have moral sensibilities? , babies that are just born , kids below 10 years old , old people above 80 years old are just drown during the noah flood.

sure they arent righteous or stuff .. babies ? small kids ? they arent even mature to think of anything.

a just and moral god don't burn demons eternally , they guide them to the right path through love.

i mean seirously , christians told those converts to show love to their atheist parent in hope for them to see the love and accept jesus . why doesnt god also do the same thing , show love till the demon accept ? if god cant / never did the same thing , how could a human possibly do such thing too ? then again , if a human could convert their atheist parents through love , why doesnt god did the same ?

nah didnt , sure i know in your mind you could come up with thousands of verse to emphasise on the 'just' part of the god. sure you could.

if everyone had the same views on the same thing , everyone would have the same religion,.

'' And everyone else: You are proving the existence of God by speaking of justice''

sry , we arent proving existence of god this way , we are just saying that he aint appear to be that just the way you say he is .

so if mass killing of babies and stuff is considered Just , so why are we punished for killing too ? so if we were to murder , there's no need to confess right ? since it's not considered un-just ?

so its okay to kill babies , murder or rape ?

Answer 2

You make a good point that is based on fact, but then you jump to a conclusion that you would like to be true.

Yes, the general morals and sense of justice embraced by Atheists in this culture derive from Christian morality. Ours is a culture with deep Chrisitan roots, and even Atheists show evidence of that past when they discuss their personal morality. If they had been born and raised in a culture that allowed incest, then they would have accepted that as the norm. If they had been born and raised in a cannibalistic society, then they would have considered cannibalism acceptable. If they had been born in a society where Islam is the basis for social mores and for government, they would be Muslim. Because our history is largely based on Christianity, they accept Christian mores.

This isn't 100% true, because there are always exceptions. But, statistically, it is a true statement. Very few Atheists would be able to overcome the moral background of the society in which they were raised. This shows by a look at percentages and statistics worldwide.

But, you make an unsubstantiated jump when you conclude that this is somehow proof of God. This is proof that our society's history is Christian. It doesn't prove anything else.

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For those Atheists about to freak out, realize that our founding fathers did in thought and deed come from Christian cultures and maintainted Christian beliefs, and even our school system was founded by Christianity. This is simply stating that our culture is based on a certain set of moral values. This says nothing about the existence of God.

Answer 3

That still doesn't explain why it is alright to support the deaths of newborn children (Exodus), the burning of harlots (Leviticus), or the annihilation of our species (Genesis). The Bible is a confirmation of prejudices from ancient men, not an extrinsic being (god).

Morals do not come from a divine, extrinsic, or benevolent omnipresent, omnipotent entity. Morals are a way for people to associate with one another and to live in relative harmony. If one examines the morality of ancient texts with a modern perspective, they will be horrified at the bloodshed fought in the name of a god.

But that's not why I'm an atheist. I'm atheist because there is no proof for gods, but much evidence that religion is a social and cultural phenomenon. By assuming that god exists and is beyond human comprehension, you have contradicted the ancient texts which define god in simple human, emotional terms, which paint him in the image of a jealous tyrant.

P.S. When you say "it is futile to deny that god exists" you are essentially saying "it is futile to deny my argument based on the assumption that god exists." This is no way to win a debate. I'm sorry, but you've just said that you are not willing to consider an opposing point of view.

Answer 4

For an all powerful, all knowing, all loving being to act in the way described by the bible is unacceptable to me.

The mass slaughters, the genocide, the cruelty just to prove a point (Job for example - this is like viciously beating your dog just to show your son how loyal it is, then giving it a nicer dinner to make up for it)

Where is the moral sensibility in slaughtering the men, women, boys and older girls in a city, then letting the younger girls be used as sex slaves? Why not just appear to the inhabitants of the city, destroy their false temples and convert the people to the true religion?

But that would take an actual supernatural occurrence, rather than a group of bloodthirsty nomads justifying their actions after the fact.


How can I worship a god that has ethics so much worse than mine?

Answer 5

Atheists say that in retort to the Christians claim and praise of their 'just' God. Christians used the term first, and atheists said 'Hold on a minute. He isn't all that just.'
And your stretch that the sense of justice confirms the existence of God is absolutely ridiculous. Just because a fictional thing fits a set of standards doesn't mean those standards make it exist. I can't even point out all the flaws in that theory...
They say it because of contradictions (saying not to do something then endorsing it when someone else does it), morals and teachings in Christianity that are unjust, as they harm others, and the fact that a God that is just would not force his creation, whom he supposedly loves, to worship him and be within a select group of elitists who have it all wrong to get into Heaven.
If God is just, as they say he is, it doesn't matter what religion you are; if you deserve to get into Heaven you will. If God is not just, then the only reason to worship him is fear, which is a pretty bad reason, in my opinion.

Answer 6

Your logic is extremely flawed.

"We have already compared the benefits of theology and science. When the theologian governed the world, it was covered with huts and hovels for the many, palaces and cathedrals for the few. To nearly all the children of men, reading and writing were unknown arts. The poor were clad in rags and skins -- they devoured crusts, and gnawed bones. The day of Science dawned, and the luxuries of a century ago are the necessities of to-day. Men in the middle ranks of life have more of the conveniences and elegancies than the princes and kings of the theological times. But above and over all this, is the development of mind. There is more of value in the brain of an average man of to-day -- of a master-mechanic, of a chemist, of a naturalist, of an inventor, than there was in the brain of the world four hundred years ago.
These blessings did not fall from the skies. These benefits did not drop from the outstretched hands of priests. They were not found in cathedrals or behind altars -- neither were they searched for with holy candles. They were not discovered by the closed eyes of prayer, nor did they come in answer to superstitious supplication. They are the children of freedom, the gifts of reason, observation and experience -- and for them all, man is indebted to man."
-- Robert Green Ingersoll

Answer 7

no, just because there is a moral standard, does not mean a god has to come up with it. people can come up with it too. different groups of peoples also have different moral standards. which people came up with based on what they thought. then came up with gods that agreed with them and wanted what they did. there were cities and moral standards before the introduction of any gods. even animals are kind to their own species in most cases and some mourn the dead.

in conclusion, if you want an actual source to like a book you can read that will tell you why people think god is immoral, try reading the bible, and see how he even breaks the rules of his own greatest commandment of murder.

Answer 8

Your comments demonstrate circular logic and a high degree of irrational, even delusional, thinking. I can state that "because tamales exist, Antarctica cannot be denied. Antartica is...." but that doesn't prove anything beyond my ability to babble. Likewise, your statements, your so-called proofs, are equally ridiculous and beneath serious consideration.

Answer 9

Sorry, your reasoning doesn't work out. There are many ideas of morality and ethics which are not necessarily based on God. There is no necessity for God to exist in order to have morality, in fact there isn't even a necessity for God to exist in order to have a universal morality.

Answer 10

Gee, holy person, why in the world would an atheist say god is not a 'just god,' inasmuch as atheists do not believe that any gods exist--just, unjust, or even a old voyeur in the sky?