A perfect counter to the astronomical odds argument for God.?

Question

I have heard the argument from theists/creationists that the probability of the universe being fined tuned to our specifications without God would be astronomically low (anthropic principle); this argument can also apply to evolution too. And no, I did not copy and paste this. But trust me it is worth the length.

One of the standard atheist arguments against this is that calculating these odds after the fact is no argument whatsoever. To better explain what this means, just think about the probability of you, as of today, being how you are. Not only do you have to include the myriad combinations of genes during meiosis that could potentially be in the gametes but the subsequent combining of those gametes during fertilization. So we have 10 million sperm in each “you know”, each carrying their own different set of genes from the father and the 100,000 eggs that are in the mother, also with their own unique combination of genes.

Lets also look at the combinations of events that could also prevent you from even being born. Both your parents would have to be alive (obviously) along with every other member of your family in a direct parent-offspring relationship throughout your family tree. We also have to see the events in their lives that could have potentially made them impotent beforehand or dead or even have prevented them from meeting their partner.

My grandfather fought in WW2 and could have been killed by shrapnel or bullets anytime during combat. The reasons that he wasn’t could have been that the plane shooting at his ship was filled with smoke by allies or friendly fire, perhaps the pilot was injured, maybe it was just shear luck that he happened to trip or got an order to move below decks. Each of those possibilities also have numerous reasons why they could have happened. The plane just happened to be hit in the spot to make the cockpit smoke, or the ace pilot that shot him could have just gotten over the measles so that he could be there that day, maybe a sloppy sailor left a wrench laying on the floor so that my grandfather tripped, or perhaps another person died and my grandfather was sent below to fill in. This could apply to any other person in my lineage regardless of whether they fought in combat or not.

My grandmother could have committed suicide because she mistakenly heard that my grandfather had died, or met another man during the war, perhaps due to financial circumstances (micro and macro economic issues here) she would have stayed in Tennessee and never have come to Cincinnati to meet my grandfather. All these circumstances and the circumstances of those circumstances all could have been different and prevented them from marrying and having my mother and her having me. So it is quite amazing that I am alive and everybody else too considering the shear number of things that could have prevented it, and I only went into things during a 4 year period.

So if somebody were to calculate those odds before I was ever born then they would indeed be astronomical. And yet we do not really marvel that anybody we know was born. Why? Because of the simple fact that it indeed happened, and if it didn’t then I would never have been born and the universe would be different by my virtue of not being in it. That is what atheists mean when they say, “If the universe was different, it would be different.”

Another problem with the theist argument is that it assumes that the universe was made for us instead of us adapting to it. Now if we use the theist logic then the universe was also made especially for me since I beat the infinitesimal odds needed to create me. Except that the theist would never say that I could never have not existed but rather that I do exist because the circumstances surrounding my family were what they were so that I could be born and if they were different then I wouldn’t have been.

My point certainly does not disprove God, but in the very least should give you pause when using the “Astronomical odds” argument.

I actually condensed this because the shear amount of circumstances involved are well HUGE. I needed to say all this because it drives home the point of the number of these circumstances and in my view wouldn't have been so powerful without them.

Anybody who wants to discuss this further can email me or IM me when I am actually on Yahoo mgr.

Sorry Deof Movestofca, but this does apply to the human race since every single one of us are subject to this.

Answer 1

You're right. Each one of us IS a miracle.

I realize that's not the response you expected, but really, that IS where your well articulated argument leads. And you won't get an argument from any thinking theist.

Answer 2

A very interesting question! The sad part is it was asked in a forum of individuals which fail to have, lived long enough, learned enough or the wisdom to appreciate the question. I wonder how many of the great "thinkers" of history felt when they proposed such questions and they met with the lack of any one listening to understand. This question screams for an audience with the ability to do more then, make a joke concerning the subject. For those who do not understand or have some thing worthy of contributing, it seems , silence or no comment would prevent the display of ignorance.

Answer 3

"A perfect counter to the astronomical odds argument for God.?"
I don't really put much stock in the anthropomorphic argument (how do we know that some other form of life couldn't have existed if conditions were different?), but you're comparing apples and oranges. The anthropomorphic principle applies to human life in general existing, your example applies to only one specific life existing.

Answer 4

Interesting argument. Worth reading.

The fact is we are here despite the odds.

Answer 5

They won't understand your point, even if they read the whole thing, not because they can't, but because they don't want to.
Btw it was long as hell. Next time try drawings, they like pretty colors.

Answer 6

Great argument, but I really don't think they'll get past the 3rd sentence. Just look at the first response.

Answer 7

You certainly put a lot of words in your argument. But I will answer with only two: Worship God.

Answer 8

I have the only two words you need to know.

Answer 9

Often what we hear and know on our own kills us.