I was shocked to learn of the Catholic church's 1933 Concordat with the Nazi party, did you know about this?

Question

http://www.concordatwatch.eu/showtopic.php?kb_header_id=752

dr h lecter: I think you'll find the actual wording of the Concordat is in front of your eyes to read, I fail to see that this is a biased account in that respect.

klute: how can you in honesty accuse me of preaching heretical hatred? I have preached nothing at all here.

Answer 1

Over the last six months I've reported this on R&S oh, about 20 times. Each time, the catholics called for for my head on a silver platter, figuratively speaking.

Answer 2

There were Priests and Bishops that were fooled into following Hitler, no doubt. The Vatican did not take a hard line against him either. We are fortunate to have hind sight and know exactly what Hitler did, (although there are groups that somehow deny the Holocaust).

The Vatican has apologized for this action, or lack of action some 70 years ago, it is not a high point for our faith nor was it a high point for our world. Mistakes were made.

That being said, Hitler did not like Catholics, there were many Priests that did not follow him were rounded up and even sent to death camps like Auschwitz, so while we cannot deny that our Catholic ancestors made mistakes, you also cannot place the blame for the Holocaust on the Catholic Church. Hitler was trying to create a superior race, not Religion.

Peace be with you!

Lets get real, a poster "just found out" that the Catholic Church owns and runs Brothels all over the world. Please tell us the source for this revelation! Or did you "just find out" from a reliable but anonymous poster here? Come on, out with the truth!

Answer 3

Yes.

The 1933 Concordat was a treaty with the sovereign nation of Germany and not the Nazi party.

No one knew in 1933 what the new ruling party in Germany, the Nazi's, would do a few years later.

The Vatican negotiated these treaties with many countries over the centuries. Here is a list of a few:
+ Concordat of Worms (1122) between Pope Calixtus II and Holy Roman Emperor Henry V
+ Concordat of Bologna (1516) between King Francis I of France and Pope Leo X
+ Concordat of 1753 with Spain
+ Concordat of 1801 between Pope Pius VII and Napoléon
+ Concordat of Fontainebleau (1813) between Pope Pius VII and Napoléon
+ Concordat of 1851 with Spain
+ Concordat of 1855 between Pope Pius IX and Austrian Emperor Franz Joseph
+ Concordat of 1925 between the Holy See and the Second Polish Republic
+ Lateran treaty (1929) between Italy and Pope Pius XI formally defining the Vatican City
+ Concordat of 1940 with the Portuguese government under Antonio de Oliveira Salazar
+ Concordat of 1953 with Spain
+ Concordat of 1993 between the Holy See and the Poland

With love in Christ.

Answer 4

Here is the full text:

http://www.concordatwatch.eu/showkb.php?org_id=858&kb_header_id=752&order=kb_rank%20ASC&kb_id=1211

Before becoming Pope, Cardinal Pacelli was a canon lawyer. He negotiated a Concordat (treaty) with the Nazi government. As with any treaty there was give and take. The two main goals were to ensure freedom to practice Catholicism and to guaranty the Pope's authority to appoint Bishops.

Highlights:
Article 1
Freedom to practice Catholicism

Article 14
The Church has the authority to appoint Bishops

Article 16
Requirement to obey German Law. This rubs people the wrong way but even Jesus told his followers that they must obey Roman law. Here is the full text:

Article 16
Before bishops take possession of their dioceses they are to take an oath of loyalty either to the Reich governor of the state (Land) concerned or to the President of the Reich respectively, according to the following formula:

"Before God and on the Holy Gospels I swear and promise, as becomes a bishop, loyalty to the German Reich and to the State (Land) of . . . I swear and promise to honour the legally constituted government and to cause the clergy of my diocese to honour it. With dutiful concern for the welfare and the interests of the German state, in the performance of the ecclesiastical office entrusted to me, I will endeavor to prevent everything injurious which might threaten it."

Article 20
The Church has authority to establish seminaries to train the clergy

Article 21
Schools will be taught in accordance with the principles of the Catholic church with special emphasis on patriotic, civic and social duty. Apparently this article is the result of some negotiated give and take. Schools will teach Catholicism and Nazi patriotism.

Article 22
Appointment of Catholicism instructors to be agreed on by the Bishop and the State. Another negotiated compromise.

Article 25
Religious orders and congregations are allowed to establish schools.

Article 31
Catholic organizations which have exclusively charitable, cultural or religious purposes are under Church authority.

Article 32
The Holy See will enact regulations to exclude clergy and members of religious orders from membership in political parties. Again, apparently the result of negotiated give and take.


Yes, the Vatican did enter into a treaty with the Nazi government before WWII. Yes, it was negotiated by Cardinal Pacelli, who later became Pope. Of course everyone must make up his or her own mind, I most certainly do not think that the Church aided Hitler. I also do not hold the church responsible for the Holocaust.

Answer 5

yeah you found one biased link............ any indepth look into the whole story reveals the truth. maybe ill find one now if im not too lazy. (sigh)


"On April 28, 1935, four years before the War even started, Pacelli gave a speech that aroused the attention of the world press. Speaking to an audience of ~~> 250,000< ~~ pilgrims in Lourdes, France, the future Pius XII stated that the Nazis "are in reality only miserable plagiarists who dress up old errors with new tinsel. It does not make any difference whether they flock to the banners of social revolution, whether they are guided by a false concept of the world and of life, or whether they are possessed by the superstition of a race and blood cult."[3] It was talks like this, in addition to private remarks and numerous notes of protest that Pacelli sent to Berlin in his capacity as Vatican Secretary of State, that earned him a reputation as an enemy of the Nazi party."

heres another link for anyone interested in getting more than one side of the story.

http://catholic.com/library/HOW_Pius_XII_PROTECTED_JEWS.asp

hmm was that 250,000 witnesses?


"While the U.S., Great Britain, and other countries often refused to allow Jewish refugees to immigrate during the war, the Vatican was issuing tens of thousands of false documents to allow Jews to pass secretly as Christians so they could escape the Nazis. What is more, the financial aid Pius XII helped provide the Jews was very real. Lichten, Lapide, and other Jewish chroniclers record those funds as being in the millions of dollars—dollars even more valuable then than they are now."

well in response - so they had two choices. 1.sign the accord and be viewed as neutral, impotent and not a threat. this results in the status quo being maintained. 2. dont sign it and risk angering the fuhrer who happens to have the largest, most efficient bloodthirsty army on the continent.
Obviously they signed the accord to escape hitlers hit list and then fought in the only possible ways they knew how - unarmed subversion. There is no other reasonable alternative. (if you want to live and fight)


oh ps im sure if i look hard enough i can find the document signed by the birmingham 6 .... the words will be right there before your eyes to read.

du·ress Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[doo-res, dyoo-, door-is, dyoor-]
–noun 1. compulsion by threat or force; coercion; constraint.
2. Law. such constraint or coercion as will render void a contract or other legal act entered or performed under its influence.
3. forcible restraint, esp. imprisonment.

owned.

Answer 6

The whole site is biased, as are you. The concordat was to protect the Catholic church and people in Nazi Germany. A German, failing to join the Nazi party, when *requested* can result in a rather swift disappearance and the Church saw no reason to allow it's people to be put under such stress. It's called diplomacy. Now go stand on your soap box and preach your brand of protestant, heretical hate somewhere else. Fact: I've read your other posts, the fact that you call yourself Pastor, and the fact that all your arguments are directed *against* the true faith.

Answer 7

Yeah, I've know about Hitler and the Catholic Church for decades. Just another in a long line of good reasons to hate organized Christianity. Even today, here in R&S, it's painfully obvious that all the Fundies lack is a few swastikas and they'd be perfect little Nazis. Fundamentalism and Facism are so similar it's terrifying. Both feed on hatred and promise a brighter future, but only if everyone thinks and acts alike and those who refuse are eliminated. Sound familiar?

Answer 8

Yes, I read about it in advanced history class. I also found out that the Vatican even today owns and manages over 1500 brothels all over the world. So what shocks you? You took all this time to realize that the Catholic church is just as greedy as all governments and the people who run them? In my opinion, you need to get out more or read more factual history. But, then again, this is just my opinion.

Answer 9

yeah I knew. There is even pictures of Hitler and some kind of priest, or the pope or something waving at people and doing the nazi salute. The catholics used the nazis as a venue to get rid of other religious groups that they did not like, like Jehovah's Witnesses.

Answer 10

Yes. Anywhere there has been opportunity for the Catholic Church to get a rung up, they have tried it. Much of their involvement was destroyed when they saw the war as being lost. They were the ones that initially got Italy involved to support Hitler also.

Answer 11

Yes, but before you rush to judgment, that was then, and this is now.

A lot of things have changed since then.

Also did you know that the current Pope was once a member of the Hitler Youth?