Why don't you correct people who say "my god is a loving god" despite a complete lack of supporting evidence?

Question

The so-called moderate or liberal Christians anger me much more than fundamentalists, because at least fundamentalists can point to the Bible for support to their claims. When a fundamentalist says Jesus said something, you can bet there's a chapter and verse for it. I may disagree with fundamentalists, but I can at least agree that the Bible does in fact say whatever it is they claim it says. With "moderate" Christians, the conversation quickly drifts into "feelings." As in, "I just don't feel that a loving god would condemn gays to Hell." Or, "I don't feel a nice guy like Jesus would forbid anyone from entering Heaven."

Atheists often pander to these "moderate" Christians, assuming, I guess, that the propaganda message will undermine real Christians' faith, or at least discourage them from practicing their religion as it is written in the Bible. I find this intellectually dishonest and morally repugnant. We shouldn't allow people to say stupid things for any reason.

"besides, i would have thought if we are going to have a conversation, it should be about what is true rather than what is politically expedient."

See, that's the problem. "Moderates" are all about politics and not at all about truth.

I'd add to the arguments against moderatism:

Every Christian, at some point in his or her life, *has* to conclude that parts of the Bible are incorrect, if not outright lies. Not all of them will take that realization as a heavy blow, but they will have it.

With moderate Christians, though, what foundation is there to shake? They don't believe *anything* except that God is great. Even the despicable and illogical words of their own religious text can't dissuade them, because their belief isn't based in the written word. They're, like, the perfect Christians. They're like Midieval Christians who never learned to read and just took everything the Church spoonfed to them. Only this is a liberal, democratic, church. It's like Socialism + Jesus.

Saying "my god is a loving god" is akin to saying, "My god is a *shiny* god, about four feet tall."

Upon what evidence do you base your assertion that God is shiny?

Can you imagine if someone said their god is shiny? People would point and laugh!

So why should we allow people to assert--despite a complete lack of supporting evidence--that their god is a loving god?

Shouldn't we at least ask how many gods they have? Maybe they have six gods, only one of which is loving. Who knows. Since they're obviously inventing a deity out of whole cloth, the normal rules of theology don't apply to their personal universe.

Answer 1

I agree with you except I see God in all of us. God is within us he created us all. For along time I had a hard time with going to church because I saw and heard things from other members that didn't apply to the teachings of the Bible. It didn't make sense's to me. In fact they did just the opposite of what the Bible teaches. Take for instance thy shall not judge, people do it all the time. I guess they forgot that if you judge someone, you will be judged too.
God is a loving God a merciful God. I see him being loving, forgiving,compassionate, peaceful. I don't think being gay is as important to him as how we spent our life that he has given us. How we treat each other and what did we do to help improve someone else's life is his only concern. The Bible clearly states their are many things that we will not understand and we are not ask why but only to trust in him.
I'm reading a book called-A New Reformation, Creation Spirituality and Transformation of Christianity written by Matthew Fox. It makes since with all that's going on now. You might want to check it out.

Answer 2

It does not disprove it. However, as no claim is credible without evidence, it leaves those who make such a claim lacking credibility. If they have no evidence, how do *they* know a god exists? We can only know about what we can detect. If undetectable gods exist, we cannot know one way or the other, so we cannot presume that they do. Edit: "Before the discovery of the molecule, did it exist? Before the discovery of the Dinosaurs, did they exist? Before humans discovered Gold, did it exist?" Yes to all. However, we didn't know about them, so were not in a position to honestly say we knew they *did* exist. The only thing that could and did change that was evidence. The same goes for anything undiscovered today, including the quantum nature of gravity and leprechauns. Edit2: "So what is the probability or that many people all being under a delusion, yet a few non believers are not. Any actual mathematicians wanna give it a shot?" Sure. In saying they claim they *know* a god exists, they're either right or wrong. The only way they could be right is if they have confirming evidence. If they have it, they're 100% right. If they don't (even if gods actually do exist), they're 100% wrong as they cannot know. So the only way of determining is to test whether or not they have evidence. I am unaware that anyone has any evidence of gods. Do you?

Answer 3

i don't understand your attitude really. i can live with moderates, even though i think their beliefs are silly. if they ask me about it i will tell them so - and i'm fairly sure they would feel the same way about me, but i don't feel the same need to go out of my way to correct them.

there is an argument that the moderates shelter and enable the fundies... i don't really buy that. the fundies often distrust the moderates even more than they do atheists, they don't seem to want or need any sheltering. besides, i would have thought if we are going to have a conversation, it should be about what is true rather than what is politically expedient.

"Only this is a liberal, democratic, church. It's like Socialism + Jesus."

so what's really WRONG with that? it sounds like you only dislike them because you have difficulty persuading them to your point of view. is it really that important that everyone totally agrees with you? at least you can have a discussion with moderates that won't end up with both sides determined to stamp out the other. it seems to me that at some point you have to trust people to think for themselves, even if they come up with some weird stuff that you don't agree with. where do you draw that line?

Answer 4

the bible says, "God is love." but God is also just and righteous and truth. he wouldn't say in his word that there are things that he hates, that are an abomination to him and then just say, "well, that's okay, i let this liar slip on in to heaven because he wasn't such a bad guy after all." the bible is very clear on who will not make it into heaven. in Revelation it says, "All liars shall have their part in the lake of fire." it is people who try to redefine sin and make it acceptable. God is love and God is just. The loving part is put into play when you waits and waits for people to repent and come into the full knowledge of truth. the judgement will come later. If he has been standing at the door and knocking and you refuse to open the door, then how can he help you out on that day when it is time to give account.

Answer 5

Who's this "we" you keep referring to? The Master Race?

I'm sorry, but wouldn't you be better off just accepting that some people believe in a god and see him as a loving presence, and will continue to believe that long after both of us are dead and gone? I mean, it's not as if I care what *you* think. Why should you care what *I* do? It's no reflection on you, I assure you.

Accept and chill. You'll live longer.

Answer 6

Excuse me ?? and all that you just stated is all about truth and intelligent, and not at all dishonest ?? I am neither a so called *fundie* nor am I a *moderate*...... We as humans, just as you claim to be, have our own way of speaking and expression just as you do..... is it not our right to speak in anyway we so choose ?? just as you ?? or is there 2 different groups of speaking laws that I have not read in my many years of life on this earth ?? and people claim us Christians cant get it together... do you want scripture, our views, our feelings, our beliefs, our faith walk, ??? what ?? we are NOT all called into the same walk, that is what you and others do NOT understand...... I am called to do just what I am doing now, to try and explain, in plane ole English, another Christian may come in behind me and quote scripture and yet another will come and do both....... You are entitled to YOUR opinion, and so am I..... so do not mock or tell me or others HOW to reply, is that not doing what others so charmingly accuse of us doing ?? NOT think for ourself ??????? go in peace........... God bless
and I add, still makes NO sense...... but, keep digging and asking........ the Son gonna shine on ya yet !!!!!

Answer 7

if you don't understand why christians say the things that they say, then why not ask god for yourself? thats the only way you will ever get to know exactly what he is like, it can't hurt anything, if he's not real, then your not out anything, and if he is real, like i believe he is, then you will learn something. if you approach him in prayer with an open heart, ask him as sincerely as you can, let him know that you have questions and doubts about him and you just really need to know. thats the only way you will ever get what your looking for, ask for a sign, for him to reveal himself to you and impress himself on your heart and mind. if you ask this in a mocking tone then god has no reason to answer you, but if you try coming off your high horse for a minute and humble yourself in front of him and truly and sincerely ask for the truth and ask for him to show you whats right , then i assure you that he will, but until you can soften your heart and do this, you will never know, you will never find him. don't wait too long, because god only knocks on your heart for so long, then he allows it to completely harden, so much so, that even if he comes down and introduces himself in all his glory, you will still be unable to accept. so please don't wait til this happens to you. god bless.

Answer 8

You refer to liberal Christians but in fact they do not exist! I say this based n the final analysis as outlined in the Bible. Read Revelations 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spew thee out of my mouth. The ones you call liberal the Bible calls Lukewarm. Ever try to drink a cup of lukewarm coffee, the bitter taste it leaves in your mouth is the same as the bad taste the liberal Christians have in Gods. You are right about atheist pandering to the liberals, however the real Christians have a solution to that found in Psalms 119:11 Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee. My advice to the liberal, lukewarm Christians is to follow Ephesians 6:11 Put on the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. That armor consists of Eph 6:14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
Eph 6:15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
Eph 6:16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
We are in a war and no soldier goes to war without his weapons and his armor. Yet many of the Liberal so called Christians go out without their weapons or their armor and come in at the days end defeated weak and beaten down. They never quite understand that they have been in battle and have been soundly defeated because they have not been listening to the Commander who has already laid out the Battle Plan that leads to VICTORY!
7 days without the Word of God, makes one weak.
We must wake the liberals up and get them into the battle or we will surely be defeated.The Body of Christ is strong and those that are not willing to be Warriors of the Lord will in the end find themselves sady on the outside looking in.
Jesus said, Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
Mat 7:28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:
Mat 7:29 For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.
It is sad that there will be no Liberals in Heaven they will for eternity be with the unbelieving and those that blieved a lie. Liberals teach that in the end everyone will be saved anyway. But the Bible says that is not so. There is only One Way to Salvation and that is through the Lord Jesus Christ.

Answer 9

My dad is a self-employed carpenter and my mom is an accountant. back in the 80's both my parents were out of work and neither could find job, but they had both been looking for about 3 months. my grandma finally convinced them to come to church one sunday and have our pastor pray with them. when they got home that afternoon there were 16 messages for them, 13 for jobs for my dad and 3 for jobs for my mom... If that isn't a loving God I don't know what else it could be.

Answer 10

As some one formerly christian, I believe it has to do with having to FEAR and love god.
Maybe everyone's just plain scared of him.
I remember reciting my catechism regarding the 10 Commandments: same ol' line every time after the question, "what does this means for us?"
"We are to fear and love God so that......."
What happened to love?