Why do people need to be stern and forceful when training dogs?

Question

OKAY, SO THIS IS AN INTERESTING CONVERSATION, BUT I GUESS WHAT I AM WONDERING IS WHAT IS THE ACTUAL REAL REASON FOR DOING IT? HOW DOES THE DOG LEARN ANYTHING BY ME HOLDING DOWN? WHAT IS THE EVIDENCE IT WORKS, WHAT IS SCIENCE BEHIND IT? ANY REAL RESEARCH OR ANIMAL BEHAVIOR STUDIES DONE TO VALIDATE THIS AS A TRAINING TOOL, OR IS IT JUST SOMETHING SOMEONE MADE UP?

Answer 1

Because unlike the opinions on training going on around here and the dogs that people have, there are dogs, believe it or not, that have major issues with any type of authority exerted over them. These are the working type of animals that do police, military and serious sport work. These dogs have real dominance issues and they would rather put you in the hospital then listen to a neurotic person telling them to sit 67 times and clicking away.
These dogs need a prong collar and an electric collar and they need to understand deeply that there will be serious and adverse consequences if they try anything untoward the handler.
Have you ever dealt with one of these dogs? Have you ever had a dog threaten your life? Have you ever "worn" a dog? If you had, you would not be asking that question. I hope I have helped.

ADD: Kat, the average dog still needs real training that involves real corrections of the physical type in order to understand that cause=effect. These new methods of ignoring the dog as a correction, just to name one, do not work REALIABLY, in the long run. I do agree that you have to know the limits of a dog and should not push it past that, yes. But, I am willing to put my dog and my training with him against anyone's who trains with a different method.

Answer 2

Well...stern, yes...forceful? I guess it depends on the stubbornness or strength of your dog! I agree that being stern is necessary for your dog to understand you mean business, but forceful types of training is the old way of training and it has been found to be ineffective. Positive reinforcement is the best way to go. I have been involved with training dogs for over 20 years.....I first learned the old way and then about 10 years ago, I learned the right way by an animal behaviorist. I attended some seminars and joined an obedience training club. Through that I learned so many good "nice" ways to train and found they worked so much better than the old way. Today, my dogs are so much more well behaved than the dogs I owned in the early 80's. I highly recommend the positive reinforcement and reward type of training.

Answer 3

It's important to be 'pack leader', but that doesn't take force...especially w/the average dog. Believe it or not, alpha wolves are not bullies. They don't have to prove themselves...unlike the lower ranking ones who struggle for position. The best way to show you're the 'leader' is by practicing 'Nothing in Life is Free' and obedience training. Consistency and rewarding works wonders, punishment might stop a behavior at that moment in time, but it teaches nothing at all.

NILIF:
http://k9deb.com/nilif.htm
http://www.hsus.org/pets/pet_care/our_pets_for_life_program/dog_behavior_tip_sheets/basic_training_techniques.html

ETA: "Greekman", the average owner won't (shouldn't) have that kind of a dog. I'll never argue that some dogs don't take more, but it's not 'one size fits all' and taking a harder approach than necessary will usually backfire w/the average dog. I've seen it end in fear aggression too many times. These are average owners, average dogs and basic training.

ETA: I agree, the average dog still needs training. I'm not saying it doesn't. I'm just saying what works for the average dog. What do you consider "real corrections of the physical type"? I haven't used any on my one sighthound...not even the slightest collar tug. Why not? I get the results I want without it, so what would be the point? She's willing to do anything I want, as long as she understands it. So, I teach her...not punish her. She's 100% reliable, including off lead. My 'houla needs a firmer hand, but still no physical corrections beyond a prong collar we used at one point. He's deaf, too. I don't pamper them either...they're dogs, not furry babies...but why use more than you need to?

ETA: "Donna", can you give me more details about the "holding down"? Can I ask what breed and the age too? Are you having any problems with the dog or just training in general? I'm assuming training in general? Thanks.

ETA: This isn't a study (haven't found one), but is based on one:
http://www.bogartsdaddy.com/bouvier/Training/alpha-roll_no.htm

Answer 4

Adding to what Greekman said ...
Understand that a dog has a mouthful of "weapons" that he is capable of using on you at any given time. All the positive reinforcement in the world might not be enough to protect you from your own dog under certain conditions.

Nobody should automatically rule out different training methods (especially ones that do work).

Answer 5

You do not need to be forceful it is like with children you must be consistent . If you do clicker training there is never any force . you just have to learn to be a good trainer there is 100 ways to teach a dog to sit , learn them all and pick the best one .

Answer 6

I think some dogs are stupid or forgetful or stuburn so if not stern or forceful and persistent they don't learn, all in all it takes a smart dog to make it easy on the trainer.

Answer 7

They don't. They need to be clear with their commands and praise good behavior. Any corrections should be sparing and gentle. Positive training is much more effective.

Answer 8

You have to show the dog that you are the boss. Of course when a dog does what you want him to you have to be positive and praise the dog.

Answer 9

To let the dog know that you're the alpha male, the leader, the dominant one, to let him know his place and be organized

Answer 10

You don't. You do need to let them know your are the pack leader and you must also be consistent.