Why do older people sometimes call Ukraine "THE Ukraine"?

Question

Moreover, why was the country ever referred to as the Ukraine? Ever?

Answer 1

In this question, Ukraine has always been a separate country from (Edit: USSR) Russia. It is Western ignorance that brought about this terminology.

Ask yourself - if the posters above are correct about Ukraine being a region of Russia (hence why we say "the Ukraine"), why did we not say "the Georgia", "the Belorussia", "the Yugoslavia", or "the Lithuania"?

Ukraine has always (Edit: since the formation of the CIS, or Communist Indpendent States) been a separate country, just like these other ones - and the others were never referred to as a region (Edit: since the formation of the CIS). But then, they were never "in your face" with Russia, like the Ukrainians.

When the Soviet Union (Edit: note I did not say "Russia") annexed Ukraine into the USSR (Edit: Ukraine was independent before the formation of the USSR), they found that Ukrainians were exceptionally patriotic and indpendent. To quell potential revolution, Russia deported the wealthy and middle class Ukrainians to Siberia, relocated Russians to Ukraine (Edit: both historical facts), and began referring to Ukraine as a region of Russia, even though it was still a separate country. The sole purpose of this move was to try to take away Ukraine's individual identity from the rest of the world.

Hence, we (English speakers) always heard the Russians refer to Ukraine as a region, and we simply accepted this in our ignorance of Ukraine and Russia's history.

This is also why, after their independence from the USSR, they have tried to distance themselves from Russia and try to regain their view as an independent country with the rest of the world.

--- Edit ----
russkimuzhik - go back to your pro-Putin propoganda and shouting about Americans stealing the arctic from Russia, in order to cover up Russian incursions into American airspace. Or talk about American interference in Ukrainian politics, while ignoring Russian control of Ukraine (and other countries) by cutting off their gas or raising prices to exhorbinant levels.

We are speaking of current usage of "the" with Ukraine, and Ukraine was annexed into the USSR.

If you want to go back beyond the current reasons for usage of "the" with Ukraine, then you are correct. Ukraine (the country) was a Cossak protected borderland region under Ekaterina's rule - which has no bearing on the current usage of "the" with "Ukraine". Oh, and to be complete in fact, "Ukrainka" is the far East Russian military region.

As Joannah pointed out, there is no article "the" in the language (Russian or Ukrainian), and the usage you show is from Ekaterina's day - which also has no bearing on the English usage of "the" with Ukraine. "Ha" vs "B" has no linguistic bearing this subject as it would be translated "on the frontier" vs. "in the frontier". Both use "the" in English - but then you only translated Ukraine in one example to support your view.

Propogandists are always good at taking little bits of unrelated facts out of context, and translating inconsistently, to support their arguments.

Answer 2

The classical English tradition dictates us to use "the" with all proper names derived from the respective common nouns. (A proper name is a noun that in its primary application refers to a unique entity, whereas a common noun refers to a class of entities.) The rule applies even if a proper name is derived from a common noun in the corresponding local language. This is why English speakers habitually say "the Netherlands" when they talk about the country (which commonly means “low lands”), "the Hague" when they talk about the city (which commonly means in the original language “a hedge” or “an enclosed area”). The definite article is inherent in these place names, it defines an object as unique, it converts a common noun to a proper name by attaching it to a unique object that is now separated from a class. Many original English place names fall in the same pattern, e.g., "The Tower" (a castle in London; commonly “a tower” = a tall structure), "The Old Bailey" (a courthouse in London; commonly “a bailey” = a fortified wall of a fortress).

"The Ukraine" as the name of the country follows this well established English logic. The word “Ukraine” is the Russian for “a borderland”. As a common noun it is attested in early Russian texts where it was sometimes used in plural and applied at various times to different geographic areas including Siberia and even the area where Moscow is currently situated. The historic meaning of this word resembles that of “the frontier” in American texts, except expanding Russia had several “borderlands” in different directions. In time, most of these Russian “borderlands” received other proper names, and only the area known currently as “the Ukraine” retained its historic name “the Borderland”.

Therefore, "the Ukraine" is the natural and grammatically correct English name of the country.

Notably, only non-English speakers call into question the use of the definite article in this place name; native English speakers don’t seem to have any problem with “the Ukraine”. Certainly, the Russian ear may safely skip “unnecessary” English articles since the grammatical category of the article does not exist in the Russian language. But the proper English ear needs articles in their respective places, including the one in “the Ukraine”. The definite article may be dropped only for brevity or out of politeness to a non-English speaker… if they insist…

Answer 3

Maybe russkimuzhik has Russian heritage, but read some of his posts. The most Russian thing about him is his good use of one sided propoganda.

Ekaterina had a borderland region called "near the border", which is the root of the word "Ukraine". The cossaks there eventually formed their own villages and eventually it became its own country.

But the translation of the word Ukraine does not give reason for the English usage of "the Ukraine". The usage of it in the English language is caused by many factors: ignorance of English speakers/writers of proper Russian language usage, the Soviet Union "taking" Ukraine into the USSR; Russia trying to remove Ukraine's independent status and patriotism; and Russia trying to make Ukraine a part of Russia (again).

Ukraine was once part of Russia a long time ago - or more correctly they were formed as one nation and split in later years. But it was a separate country from before the USSR even if it was controlled by others. No different than the other CIS countries.

But English does not use "the" with the other countries, and does with Ukraine, largely because of the world view of Russia trying to unsuccessfully re-absorb Ukraine.

Answer 4

On the contrary, the name UKRAINE, which first appeared in the historical chronicles in 1187, has been common in the English language for almost 350 years. In the earliest years it appeared without the definite article "the" but in this century the definite article increasingly preceded the name Ukraine.

First of all, it can be noted that the Ukrainian language has no articles so this is not a factor except indirectly. The reason for this is that many Ukrainian immigrant scholars, due to their imperfect knowledge of English, used the form "the Ukraine" in their books thus helping to perpetuate this usage.

Does English grammar require the definite article the before Ukraine? Ukraine is the name of an independent country. There are only a handful of countries which require the article in English: Those with plural names such as the United States, the Netherlands or the Philippines. The others have names with compound forms which needs the article, such as the United Kingdom, the Dominion of Canada, or the Ukrainian SSR.

English grammar does not require a definite article before the names of singular countries such as England, Canada or Ukraine.

Geographical regions such as the Arctic, the Atlantic, the North, the West, and the prairies all require the definite article, but these are not countries. Since 1917 Ukraine has had very definite borders so it cannot be regarded as merely a region. Some people have mistakenly thought that Ukraine is a general word meaning "the borderland;' "the steppes" or "the prairies;' which would require the article. A few neanderthal writers in the past have even promoted "the Ukraine" to reflect the original meaning "the borderland" in order to diminish the international political stature of Ukraine

There appears to be virtually no grammatical or logical reason to use the definite article before the name Ukraine. But it is still encountered occasionally because of habit or because the writer is careless or ignorant about Ukraine.

Now, the exception to the rule. It is possible for "the Ukraine" to be correct in English but in this circumstance, For example, one could correctly say, "The America of I've grown up in is not the America of of today" as well as "The Ukraine of Shevchenko is not the Ukraine of Kravchuk."

The use of the definite article in English before the name Ukraine is awkward, incorrect and superfluous. Writers who care about good style in their English grammar and the correctness of their language will always avoid the use of "the Ukraine" and use only the simpler and correct "Ukraine."

Answer 5

Older people lived all their lives in the Soviet Union. And then Ukraine was an important part of sovetstkih Union. It took 25 years of Ukraine's independence, but a habit and desire of older people to consider Ukraine as a part of the Soviet Union left.

Answer 6

Becasue in ancient slavic, Ukraine means Bordorlands, it wouldnt make much sense just calling a country and unproper noun without saying THE infornt of it. And people think Ukraine is a provence of Russia. WHILE IT IS NOT!!! So the Russians put THE infornt of Ukraine so it looks minor compared to Russia, so it is a mix of grammer, culture and poltics. I am 51% Ukrainian and study history.

Answer 7

This is what I heard .....
A few hundred years ago, Ukraine was considered to be Russia's "outback", and Ukraine means something similar to "outback" in old Russian. So, in Western grammar, it became known as "the Ukraine". In modern Russian and Ukrainian, it's just called "Ukraine".

Answer 8

When we learned geography, Ukraine was not an independent country. It was a region of the USSR. It was called "the Ukraine" just as we refer to the Great Plains, the Midwest, or the west coast.

Answer 9

That's what it used to be called -The- Ukraine. After the collapse of the Soviet Union it was called just 'Ukraine'.

Years before that, Argentina was called 'The Argentine'.

And why not? Our country is called The United States. 8^)

Answer 10

It was called The Ukraine when it was a region of the USSR. Once the latter bit the dust, Ukraine became a country. No need for the The anymore. That would be like saying The France.