Published/Unpublished Authors of Fiction: Please answer this ?

Question

I recently submitted a snippit of one of my older writings to a writing critique group. I had some positive feedback, however, a lot of people had a problem with the fact that I didn't divulge the character's physical despcription, age, or details about the subject of a conversation (the "Orange Experiment"). They said things like "Why should I care about this guy if I don't know anything about him?" or "Why should I care about this conversation when I don't know what the Orange Experiement is?" and similar things.

My question is: In the first few pages of your novel, did you immediately give specifics about the characters physical appearance age, etc. I find this to be kind of odd, almost forced. I wanted the details to present themselves naturally, not like I was writing an article. In the pages that followed what I submitted, more details presented themselves in, what I thought was, a natural fashion.

Your thoughts?

Pax-Thanks for the tip but I made SURE I only put something that wouldn't comprimise my story. It's something that, if I had to, I could scrap and redo.

Fire-I do the same thing. I picture my story as a movie and it really helps me with the scenes and knowing when to end them, what to include in them, what I want the reader to feel and what I want the character to project.

Answer 1

The first few pages of any kind of writing should intrigue the reader into wanting to know more. This doesn't necessarily mean that one has to start out with a clinical description of characters or place in fiction writing but something in the writing needs to suggest place and character. Indeed, the reader does need to feel that they care about a character or premise at the outset. They need to be intrigued about wanting to know more. Overdescription in the beginning of a novel, however, can weigh down the writing. The first few pages--up to the first 3 chapters need to be very strong and dynamic. This is what will be submitted to agents and editors when you begin looking to publish your work.

In nonfiction writing, as a medical writer/editor (which I am), I want a "lead" that catches attention and also summarizes what the article is about. A provocative idea related to the article is also useful--something that draws in the reader. The remainder of the article explains the "lead."

In fiction writing, you certainly don't begin with a summarization of the story, but you need to catch the readers attention either with the scene or by saying something provocative about a character and his/her motives. You need to establish a "why" about interest in the story. You also need to establish the setting.

When I compose fiction (I've written 2 mystical fantasy novels in 2 years that I'm now trying to market to agents), I think that I am watching a movie. I think about how sequences go in movies and how one learns about characters through movies (where one must rely on visual cues and dialogue not didactic descriptions.) I think this helps me establish place and character in a smooth way. Although movie viewers don't notice these things, movies always begin with a visual cue that establishes place. They also present action according to point of view (either that of a particular character or by a neutral witness) whereby the viewer immediately becomes intimate with a character.

Answer 2

I started my novel in the same way -- and it's wrong. I will have to go back and fix it -- not only in the beginning but throughout.

The reader needs a sense of place. Both of us probably believe it is the story or plot or dialog that counts. And, that's true. But the reader wants to have the feeling s/he is there at the scene of the conversation or whatever.

This has always been the case, but it is more so because television has created the need for a picture. Details of the scene grabs the reader and puts her/him into that kitchen (or wherever) where the scene takes place.

I think that stuff can be added in the second draft. After all, what will sustain the reader is the story line.

Less clear for me is the details of the person's life. I think those can be meted out as the story proceeds. People who disagree with me believe they should come a little more quickly.

Having said all that, I should add that not a lot of detail is necessary. It might be enough to say something in between:

-- The house was a mansion, and

-- A description of each of the rooms.

Answer 3

I don't alway describe my characters. Short stories especially are sometimes difficult, because I write most in first person, and its awkward having a person discribe themselves. In one story the guy was aware of someone reflected in store fronts as he walked, but because he hadn't slept for days, was drunk, and unshaven, thought of that person as someone else wearing his clothes... but when a story is well written I don't think the reader will notice. The same as when you "suggest" a sexual encounter, but the reader thinks they've read an erotic scene. Suggest the characters appearance, flipping long hair, run hands through greasy hair, rub thick eyebrows, or beard, smells too, will show the reader that the person is a highly perfumed lady, or a liquiored up biker.

I have a series of short stories where the protagonist is never named. He is telling the stories (all of them) but no one ever calls him by name, and he never uses his name...no one who reads the stories seem to notice--that tells me that its well covered. All the reader knows is that this guy is a man, has an ugly cat (that he says is as ugly as his cat) and that he's retired and over 55 (he lives in a plus 55 community).

As to disclosing the subject of a conversation--if the "snippit" you took to the group didn't contain the information but it was somewhere else in the story, you're covered.. you don't have to repeat the information over and over.

Answer 4

I like to describe a character through another character's eyes. When that can't be done I slip in bits about the character's description within a few pages of introducing them into the story. I agree that a basic "laundry list" of description on a character is tedious. Be subtle.

Answer 5

a million. Harry Potter- Eragon (merely sounds like they could) 2. Albus Dumbledore- Gandalf (come on now.. 2 tall, previous, humorous, sensible wizard adult adult males) 3. Severus Snape- I have not have been given any theory 4. Samwise Gamgee- Charlie Bucket 5. Hermione Granger- Elizabeth Bennett (sharp, witty, logical, "cuts the crap") or Saphira 6. Sophie Neveu- Sherlock Holmes 7. Dolores Umbridge- no person could be acquaintances together with her hahaha 8. Lucy Pevensie- Jane Eyre (2 youthful "kindred spirit" varieties) 9. Lord Asriel- on no account examine The Golden Compass

Answer 6

You need to do something to get a reader interested in the first paragraph. You may not divulge all details but give something to connect the reader to your character.

Answer 7

First of all, I don't advise putting things online for critique.

A copyright is established the minute you write something. It is yours. However, a copyright is only as good as the high priced lawyer you get to defend it. It's a big world out there. And you cannot control it, no matter how much you would like to. If things are posted online, they are subject to be stolen. Then what do you do? How do you defend it if it is stolen by someone in another state? Another country? The answer is ... you don't you just lost your work. You couldn't possibly afford to hire an attorney who would go to court to defend it for you.

A lot of people here talk about the so called "poor man's copyright" where you put yoru work in an envelope and mail it to yourself without opening it until you need to prove you wrote it. The truth is - it isnt worth the 42 cents and the envelope. No court is going to accept that as evidence. There are a hundred ways to Sunday to beat it. I could have a whole stack of envelopes I mailed to myself a year ago unsealed. When I see something I want to steal, I could just print it out and tuck it inside one of my stamped envelopes and lick it shut. BAM - I own it. I did that for an entire writing class one day. I put each and every one of their finished stories in separate envelopes and showed them how easy it was to steal their work. Or I could backdate my computer (easily done) and burn your story on a disk with my name. Again, I own it.

As for purchasing a copyright under the Federal Copyright Protection Act, it is a very bad idea if you ever intend to try and sell this material. Agents and publishers consider it unprofessional and amateur. It shows you don't trust them with your work. If you ever do manage to sell it, copyrighting the work for you will be done by the publisher in accordance with a clause in your contract.

So what is the answer? The smart money is on KEEP YOUR WORK OFF THE INTERNET. If you wish a critique, join a face to face real live writers group. Libraries and bookstores have them. Or take a course at a local community college. Or ask a teacher to mentor you. There are many things you can do.

This is the best advice I can give you. I know a lot of people like to show off their work. But think about how long you have worked on this book. Is it worth it? Hardly. You can always join Absolute Write Water Cooler and discuss writing in their forums with others, but do not post your work. I will post nothing here despite many requests and I closed my website down long ago. I also stopped contributing to websites long ago when I had a story stolen.

Be smart - the internet is a buffet for plagiarists.

That being said, as to your specific question, I am not a believer in "tell not show" writing. I don't need a list of what the guy was wearing right down to his shoes unless he is dressed in a very specific way for a very specific reason. But there ARE ways you can slip in details about the person without giving us a laundry list. Without knowing the dialogue, allow me to make up a bit of my own as an example.

"Bob walked into the room, his cat-like green eyes quickly scanned his surroundings as his fingers played nervously with the handle of the Beretta stuck in the back of his tightly fitting jeans. His CIA training told him to stay on his toes, checking every possible hiding place and yet remembering to watch his back at the same time. At times like these, he always remembered his partner Ted and that time in Paris. Ted was careless and he paid for it with his life. Losing a partner like that, although a terrible tragedy, made Bob a better agent. He always felt the most alive when searching a place like this. He could feel his body tingle, and the sweat drip down the back of his neck. His fingers pulsed nervously on the handle of the gun, but it was a good kind of nervous. The kind of nervous that kept a guy alert and alive."

As for the conversation about the Orange Experiment - let's try another one.

"I told you not to talk about that on the phone. This isn't a secure line. Meet me in an hour at the Cafe de la Rousse. Make sure you're not followed. If I'm reading the paper, I'm being watched so walk past and go to the lobby of the Ritz Hotel. There will be a message for you at the desk. Everything depends on the Orange Experiment. We cannot fail, not now. We've come too far. Just meet me."

OK see?? I was able to get a lot of information about Bob in that one little paragraph without it being an information dump where I just list facts. I even gave him a bit of a past. It is enough for a first paragraph to tell you a little bit about him and make you want to know more.

As for the Orange Experiment, I promised my reader that there would be more information forthcoming, but at the same time, I also let my reader know this information is dangerous and has to be protected.

The people who gave you those critiques are incorrect. You do not want to tell your readers everything at once. If you do, you will have a very short story and there will be little reason for a reader to even finish it.

What you want to do is think of information like a line on a fishing pole. You want to let it out slowly and YOU control it. Let it out a little when you want to so that when you are ready, you can reel your readers in big time.

Try to remember that with information like this, show not tell. it is easy to work detail into an otherwise mundane paragraph that will provide readers with a lot more than they knew before.

Forgive me for making up parts of a story ... I don't know exactly what you wrote. Those are just some random samples I thought up on the spot. If you'd like me to read the real stuff feel free to send to [e-mail].

If you are on my fans list, I have many questions about writing with great answers starred for you to copy and study. I star more all the time. Pax - C

Answer 8

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