question to atheist?

Question

this is a sincere question please no wise cracks. People ask Who created the creator. well if one believes the creator created time then there needs not be a creator for the creator. If the all mighty is outside of time there would be no begining or end. so isn't this question void? the reason is we who look past the physical into the supernatrual believe in an existance that has no start or end and therefor does not need an external presence to create it. only the universe with laws such as physics and thermal dynamics needs a creator. If I am wrong please tell me why.

well under the rules of debate no one can give me a true rebutal. if logic dictates what you think I would expect something more then insults and have hearted answers. if anybody would truly like to debate this smartly and civilaly then email me.

what is wrong with you people. I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN. STOP ASSUMING GOD IS ATOMATICALLY A DETERMINING FACTOR FOR A CERTAIN RELIGION. IT ONLY SHOWS IGNORANCE AND A SEVERE LACK OF INTELEGANCE

Answer 1

Very very good point! Not being an atheist I apologize for answering your question, but you're right, when you don't exist in time, you wouldn't have had a start or end. BRAVO!!!

Answer 2

People are always asking for "evidence" to prove God. Have anyone observed the awesome splendor of the earth and other celestial bodies? Human beings arrived in the last minute of creation, and we are the first to deny our Creator. Can anyone disprove the presence of a Creator? Science tells that our universe was created from an initial burst of energy... does anyone knows where that energy comes from? I mean there is something out there that's been out there for such a long time...and you dare say its nothing. That is like the theory of Columbus discovered america. That is like going into an ancient cave and see a Sony laptop, some boots and a desk lamp... and then say there has been no one there before you.
Ask a scientist to theorize how a ball of energy decided to get together to form atoms and molecules. And the molecules from no apparent influence, formed cells. These cells decided that they wanted to be together, so they started respiring. They made little parts of themselvees so they can stay together. And hey, why not just go on and form massive colonies of cells to become animals and insects and fishes of billions of different types. Guess what, these little atoms decided that some will become eaters and some will become the eaten. So intelligent these brainless little atoms are. Everyone knows that God Exists, but so many rebel just to prove a point- that they do not have to go with the flow. Man is ever rebellious. Besides, if I don't know where I've come from before I was born, and if I don't know what happens after i die, because no one has come back to talk about it, I would play it safe; hence the reason we have so many forms of insurance- you never know when you might need it. Imagine the possibilities, just do not rule out the facts.

Let's say there was no heaven and hell- anyone can deny it because we have heard no first-hand accounts- and then you die doing good; big deal, you spent your whole life disciplining yourself. What a wasted inconvenience. But lets say there is a heaven and hell, and you spent your life doing evil..."ah man I shoulda known...". Better have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it; especially when you do not know what lies ahead.

Answer 3

The presumption of a transcendent being outside of time is, of course, POSSIBLE, but the question is whether or not it is plausible and likely.

The question "who created the creator" is meant to respond to the 'first cause' argument for the existence of God. Typically, it states that since all events have a cause, when the universe first began, there had to be a 'first cause,' and then suggests that God would fulfill that requirement. Deists see this as the full extent of interactions that God had with the universe.

The statement that there this transcendent being exists outside of time is extremely hard to conceptualize, but the question of God's creation remains relevant. The universe/time beginning occurred at a point before which we have no current way of perceiving. This, however, does not mean that there was no other possible events in an earlier universe, that there are parallel universes, or that the theory has some flaws in explaining our current condition. To posit God does not explain the universe because the same question arises. How did God come to be? If God is outside of time, what is God's nature? How does God, outside of time, interact with matter/energy/time? Would God be governed by natural laws? Theological conclusions are unattainable, but the scientific explorations are at least possible. Therefore the imposition of God into the question of universal beginnings precludes discoveries and suggests a non-disprovable theory. It therefore is not science.

^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^

Answer 4

Does your belief come from the Bible? If so, why does God take 6 days to create everything? Why would he have to operate in time if he is outside of time? Don't tell me that only describes the effect within this universe, because if so then why then did he rest on the seventh day?

But this is only one small reason why I think the argument that God is outside of time is a poor argument. The biggest reason is that does nothing to explain why God exists. People postulate the existence of God to explain the existence of the universe, saying only an intelligence could have designed the universe. What is it about the universe that demands a designer that is not also true about God? I just don't get how you can say it impossible for the universe to exist on its own, but it is possible for a god to exist on its own.

Answer 5

"well if one believes the creator created time then there needs not be a creator for the creator."

Why? Your argument rests on an invalid assumption. "Outside of time" does not mean outside of "everything". If there is an "outside of time" then there must be something to be "inside of". You are trying to base your "logic" on an infinite spiral.

ADDENDA

"Now, what say you all? "

Take a math course.
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"I would expect something more then insults and have hearted answers. if anybody would truly like to debate this smartly and civilaly then email me."

Hmmm. There are plenty of well-thought and civil responses here. Throwing a tantrum and running off just because you don't like them doesn't speak well for your own debating skills.

PS If you want a smart debate, act like it and improve your grammar and spelling.

Answer 6

You don't know that the creator didn't have a creator, do you ?

Here's a silly story - The Universe was created as part of a High School Science Fair project by a teenager in another Universe. That teenager's race had been developing Science for hundreds of millions of years and creating Universes turns out to be fairly simple for them. This teenager who created our Universe has parents.

Ok, that sounds silly, I know, but it could be true, couldn't it ?

Answer 7

My own peculiar beliefs, which I call "the universe according to me" tend to believe that the universe itself IS the uncreated creator. To clarify any confusion due to the fact that we know that our own universe itself had a beginning, I should say "multiverse" or "omniverse", the all of the physical cosmos in all of its manifestations. Whether it's God, the Tao or something short of that, its the highest power that I can imagine for creating anything.

Answer 8

Show me some proof of this "outside of time" and place with no universal laws such as physics and thermal dynamics. Show me where this has some evidence. Because I don't recall it being anywhere in the Bible, and therefore I believe it is made up to fill in some gaps in reason.

atheist

He means it when he says it pisses him off to be called a CHRISTIAN. He has been harrassing me by email for my "assumption".

Answer 9

Well isn't that fine and dandy. If we just label God as being outside these things then we can still keep our notion of him intact. What if nothing exist outside the physical and reality? The question can go both ways, can't it. Just because there could be a God that lives outside these boundaries doesn't mean there is a God living outside these boundaries. Does this make sense?

Answer 10

It looks like you came up with an even more complex answer to a tough question. You seem to believe that our complex universe must've had a creator, but on the other hand you're content to believe that an even more complex creator of our universe (and time, and physics, etc.) needs no creator. Your logic seems to fight against itself.

Answer 11

You're not wrong, per se. Of course the creator you speak of is physically impossible, but you obviously understand that or you wouldn't have used the term 'supernatural'.
Though the argument that there must have been a first cause is not a solid one, and in any case it is an argument for a first cause only; not for an intelligent god.