summerland? is it not another form of reassurance?

Question

as a celtic pagan witch, i am familiar with the idea of reincarnation, but i am not comfortable with the references to summerland. why? because if we are given another turn of the wheel, i believe that will be a gift from the Creatress, mother earth, or Gaia.
to me, personally, summerlands seems like another version of heaven.
these places cannot exist except inside our heads. their 'existence' serves only as a form of reassurance, surely?
perhaps this is because i believe in the powers of nature and her gifts, but i don't think of specific deities as such. i am aware of the many names given to them in reference to rain, crops, fertility etc, but they are merely labels that help our understanding.
when i die, my flesh will return to the earth, my breath to the air, my spirit within the memories of my family and friends.
that is enough for me.
we come from love, and we live in and die in love.
that is all :)
but i do assume i am right. tell me your thoughts please :D
blessed be
)o(

of course i realise we all have different ideas/beliefs, that is why i said i do not assume i am right and asked for your thoughts!!

and no i did not 'become' pagan to 'avoid' xianity - i have always been pagan. my ancestry is rich with healers, witches, gypsies, herbalists!

so i know my path and my thoughts.
i do not say anyone is wrong, i am merely interested in your thoughts.

just because i do not think summerlands is 'for me', i am more than happy to accept it works for many, and would like people's views on it, as raj kindly did so.

why cant people read the whole qu and its intent?!
hmmm....

also, i do not usually ask provocative questions!
so i thought i'd give it a go!

i know some folk WILL 'get it'! [thank you in advance friends!] )o(
for those who dont, i thank you for your views anyway, even those that wish to insult or spam.
i forgive you your ignorance!!
blessed be

i have not 'made up my mind'?? maybe i have, but wish to debate this idea? isnt that what we are here for??
spirit within a body - yes!
we are all that, this i know from my memories of my ancestors
)o(

perhaps if more people like yourself were willing to discuss the ideology etc, then i could have a deeper understanding of your beliefs too.
i love to learn!
for me, i am happy to meet you all there if that is the Plan, but for now it doesnt work for me. )o(

as mistress weatherwax would say, its all about headology! :D

desiree > have you not heard, sister, of the atheist pagans? and why do people need to be brave to be an atheist?! that phrase suggests to me that people who are 'brave enough' to be atheists perhaps 'doth protest too much' ? )o(

WOW!

such lovely responses! thank you everyone!
madpol, your explanation is lovely!
i strongly feel that our summerlands/heaven - source of love and life - is WITHIN, and this has been validated for me by all your responses.
yes karma is something i feel very positive about within my beliefs - and something we are all responsible for, [again, within] and reflects upon those spirits around us, encased in our fragile skins.

i wished to ask this question in this manner so that i would hopefully bring our some strong emotions and thoughts - and i bless every one of you for sharing with me - i cannot thank you all enough, my sisters and brothers

love & light to you all

brightest blessings :D

)o(

i send hugs out to you all (((((((((love))))))))) and yes jon, my cup is empty and waiting
*sip*

merry meet,merry part and merry meet again

these words reflect not only our immediate gatherings, but hint at what could be to come

i love it!!!

)o(

"They [ancient Celts] believed that the dead were transported to the Otherworld by the God Bile (AKA Bel, Belenus). Life continued in this location much as it had before death. The ancient Druids believed that the soul was immortal. After the person died in the Otherworld, their soul reincarnates and lives again in another living entity -- either in a plant or the body of a human or other animal. After a person has learned enough at this level, they move on after death to a higher realm, which has its own Otherworld. This continues until the individual reaches the highest realm, the "Source." A Druidic visitor to this web site wrote: "All things are created from the Source, including the Gods/Goddesses. We are just sparks from its flame." At every birth, the Celts mourned the death of a person in the Otherworld which made the new birth possible."

Answer 1

Wow, you asked a question that has been on my mind a lot. I have had the exact same thoughts and feelings about the idea of the Summerlands. I have read every answer you have received, and this is what I think.

When I die, my flesh returns to Mother Earth. My body is a collection of molecules, but this collection of molecules will be exactly the same molecules at 1 second after my death, but whatever it is that "animates" those molecules will be gone, and we have no real information as to what happens to it. The idea of Summerlands does strike me as the same as the idea of heaven. I really don't see a whole lot of substantial differences. The Summerlands is supposed to be a resting stop in our journeys but heaven is supposed to be IT?

OK, but what my problem with BOTH of them is, WE DO NOT REALLY KNOW. Sure, we hope that our consciousness continues in some form or other, but we don't know. I don't mean to seem either obtuse or pessimistic, because I am not saying that we go nowhere and that our earthly existence is all we will ever have. I like Raji's and madpol's answers, I hope they are right and that perhaps there is something else.

But I simply do not know. The idea that this is it scares me, and I want the Great One Spirit to count me in if there is something else, but I have a feeling that all of this discussion is pointless, bc whatever is gonna happen is gonna happen and it is gonna happen to us all the same.

Just my opinion. In summary, I agree with you.

Bright Blessings,
Lady Morgana )0(

Answer 2

OK. If you know Granny Weatherwax, you're bound to have a learning curve.

There's a big difference between the Christian Heaven or Muslim paradise and the Celtic Summerlands. Heaven and Paradise are rewards and Eternal.

Summerland is a convalescent home and temporary. Souls taking a beating over a lifetime. Once the Cauldron has burned away the dross, leaving only the true metal, it needs time to cool and regenerate back into a full soul before returning to the Worlds. Actually, there is only one soul and we all share it, taking just enough for ourselves to live in a body. Individual souls are a perceptual illusion created by the body's limited senses.

Like all convalescents, the healing souls get cranky as their strength returns, so it makes sense to provide a fun environment until they are ready for rebirth.

Maybe you can opt out of the wheel. But I'd like a few more rides. Blame the gloomy Hindus, with their Philosophy that, "Life Sucks, Then you die, Then you are reincarnated, Then life sucks some more," for tainting our view of multiple lifetimes. It's not a wheel, but a spiral. We all rise together, but at our own paces.

Life is Joy and the Mother divided herself to experience the most of it.

Answer 3

I'm really almost totally ignorant on this subject, so I thought I'd do a bit of research. I typed Summerland into my search engine . . . Good Grief! I'm none the wiser.

The question still intrigues me because there seem to be similarities between my understanding and yours.
I wonder what you see as happening to the mental / emotional energy left over when a person dies? Do you have a concept similar to Karma?

As far as Summerland / Heaven is concerned. I personally don't have a problem with the heaven and hell states provided we realise that they are just that, temporary states, which we can be in for a while and then move on.

I think that what really happens when we die is virtually impossible for us to grasp while we are yet alive. Too complex and all set in a 'dimension' we don't inhabit yet. (Yes, I know we are spiritual beings - but we are incarnate spiritual beings and our information is mediated through our physical brains.)

So - no real answers, Hedgewitch my friend, just a couple of questions and a stick to muddy the waters a bit more for you.

May I offer you a cup of Cosmic tea? It's really very good. Of course, your cup has to be empty first. (Smiles).
~*~ sip.

Answer 4

What a beautifiul way to sum something up

"when i die, my flesh will return to the earth, my breath to the air, my spirit within the memories of my family and friends.
that is enough for me."

I can understand where you are coming from with the idea of the Summerlands, I have always known that in my heart I am some kind of pagan and I have been reading around the vast topic and its branches to find something that fits perfectly. (any help and i would be gratetful) I like you can see the heaven/summerlands similarities but my understanding is if that is your belief, and as you are hurting no one with that belief then it is purely acceptable and understandable too.

Answer 5

Spiritual information gained through personal experience doesn’t grant factual empirical knowledge. To illustrate consider a hotel full of people sleeping. They may all be dreaming but each dreams a unique dream. Science agrees we have dreams but can’t find a way to decode what even one dream means or why we have them. Spiritual matters are like a dream within a dream and far enough removed that most aren’t even certain what, if or how they believe in spiritual matters. We are in fact like blind men experiencing an elephant, each knowing only what we experience but the truth is more than all our perceptions. Heaven, paradise, Abraham’s Bosom, Summerland, Nirvana and many other descriptions of something wonderful exist. Whatever it is, is bigger than and different than all our perceptions tell us. I guess what I’m saying is that we find what we seek. If we keep an open mind and seek truth then we have a better chance of getting closer to the truth. Frequently we settle for realizing any type of personal experience at all, since we aren’t aware of our moment-by-moment spiritual adventures. Those that are aware of their spiritual experiences sometimes do us the disservice of describing them. Their descriptions are bound by their knowledge and colored by culture, attitudes and misconceptions of the teller. Never do they receive empirical knowledge from these experiences. So if you KNOW God loves you and use that to validate your worldviews you are mixing apples and oranges.

Sorry about rambling. Summerland sounds good but is the tip of the iceberg.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uh-1JVctSOY
♥Blessed Be♥
♥=∞

Answer 6

Because I'm a huge Harry Potter geek and I can't resist a good opportunity...

"Tell me one last thing," said Harry. "Is this real? Or has this been happening inside my head?"... "Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?"

But to get to the question at hand, I feel that if you so wish, you may "skip" the summerlands (though I certainly wouldn't) to come directly back. I personally don't feel that the summerlands are a form of reassurance but a place of temporary rest.

I also don't think that you shouldn't believe in something just because it is analogous to something from another religion. Yes it does seem similar to heaven but that's no reason to NOT believe. Of course I don't think this is your reason for discomfort with the idea of the summerlands, however you should keep it in mind.

Answer 7

Hedge, I think of summerland as a place to rest up from the last lesson of lise, and a place to decide on the next lesson, figure out how to best undergo the experiences that next life will address, to gain that knowledge. That is only how I see it. I may not be right about it but as I understand it, that is the best thing that I have been able to conceptuallize and it seems to WORK for me, so I follow it.

Brightest Blessings,
Raji the Green Witch

Please do NOT confuse Rai with me.

Answer 8

I get what you're saying. :)
I have often wondered how much of our modern paganism is a spin off of Christianity and how much is taking it BACK from Christianity.
Some of our ancestors did indeed believe in an everafter. Hades, Duat, places like that. Some did not. Some believed in reincarnation, (Egyptians), some did not, (Greeks.)
I think its very deep of you to analyze this. What IS the afterlife? What does it constitute? Is is going to a "better place" or is simply a higher form of existence? Does that higher form actually need a name? Or better yet, do I even really need to KNOW? Reality is that we won't until we die. :)
Good questions to ask yourself and there is nothing wrong with exploring it. I happen to be studying the same subject at the moment. :)

Answer 9

Summerland, abides within you. The Inner kingdom that Yeshua spoke of (Thomas Gospel saying 3, Luke 17:20-21), Traveling to the distant mosque in holy Mecca (or how everyone Muslim is supposed to travel to Mecca), Nirvana, The promise Land, and etc, these are all internal realities as one unfolds their being, tell they reach their source. All of these can be fulfilled in the worlds "Know thy self," its about entering the reality of their higher self of light, from which they have been expressed within this world.

It's really sad that people project these things outwardly. It isn't the founders fault that the multitude will always get it wrong in their organic consciousness and miss the message by attempting to approve themselves in the physical. The scriptures are all allegorical and reflect inner realities of mind and being, Heaven is within you, all these places are, because they reflect realms of being that you must be born into within thy self, or you can reach it. A man can't live as fish lives, unless he becomes a fish, in those interdependent realities of being you must arise into the nature or level of consciousness with is of that plane. Just like how you can't understand or know the animals, unless you move into their reality, you have a animal kingdom, a animal consciousness within yourself that perceives the animal kingdom on a level that is far beyond what you would imagine. The same for the plant kingdom and mineral kingdom.

Answer 10

You heard wrong. There is no planet (that we know of) that is exactly like Earth. The exoplanet that is the closest to Earth in size and temperature is Gliese 581C. But it is estimated to be 50% larger than Earth and about five times Earth's mass. Some researchers argue that Gliese 581 c will have a runaway greenhouse effect, and thus would not be habitable by life as we know it. In addition, it orbits so close to its red dwarf star that it likely is tidally locked with Gliese 581 (meaning it shows the same face to its star, like the moon does with the Earth). That means that there is no day and night and no seasons. The other exoplanets found so far are all more massive than 581C (most are Neptune-sized or larger), and most orbit close to their stars (called "hot giants").