Irreducible complexity..?

Question

Irreducible complexity is the hypothesis that organisms cannot be reduced to simpler organisms without killing them. Creationists argue that this is proof that evolution is wrong and that God is right. Ignoring the fact that the vast majority of biologists think that irreducible complexity is ridiculous, let’s just assume that irreducible complexity is right. It still does not prove the existence of God. I could just as easily say that a reducibly complex alien race created us. I highly doubt it, but being that there is no evidence for either the God theory or the alien theory, then both theories equally likely.

Answer 1

Man you are a dumbass. Both "evolutionists" and "creationists" should beat you for being a moron.
Know what you are talking about before making a statement.

Answer 2

It is interesting that advocates of intelligent design can keep asking the same questions again and again in different forms. This is essentially the same as asking about the use of half an eye, an argument skillfully put aside by Darwin such a long time ago. This new version, first put forward by the rather dubious MIchael Behe was just as skillfully put aside by the excellent biochemist Kenneth Miller. The idea we must put aside in the case of the flagella is that the whole must exist all together doing this particular job perfectly. This is simply not the case. The molecules that came to be involved in the flagella could well have been involved in very different things and due to a mutation bringing them together have formed a flagella similar to that which we see today. From this point it is not hard to imagine that further advantageous mutations would occur over a period of time resulting in the flagella we know and love. Miller draws our attention to the type three secretory system or TTSS. This is one of several systems used by parasitic bacteria in order to pump poisons through their cell walls and into their host organism. Each molecule is individually pumped through a specifically shaped hole, like an automatic slot machine. if we compare the molecular structure of the TTSS and the bacterial flaggella we see that they are very similar. From an evolutionary perspective it now becomes clear that TTSS component were commandeered for a new, but not wholly unrelated, function when the flagellar motor evolved. we can make the leap from the motion of tugging individual molecules across the cell wall to the flagellar tugging the molecules of the axle around and round. We can see then that the flagellar did not evolve in one big leap, but as with many molecules and chemical processes is the results of different molecules being changed and modified as a result of mutation. It is important to understand that there is NO CHANCE INVOLVED. the flagellum did NOT come about by chance. A mutation which increases the survival/ fecundity of an organism will increase in frequency; those which do the opposite will fail to be spread. Applying this basic principle to any aspect of life will help you find out why something is the way it is.

Answer 3

Every time science has some contraversy, Creationists swoon in with "god did it" nonsense, worshiping the gaps, as Richard Dawkins puts it.

True, if Irreducible Complexity proved to be valid, then why would the Biblical god or any god invented by man be the right answer to fill in the gap?

God's job description keeps shrinking.
.

Answer 4

Irreducible complexity fails if the organism is made out of Lego blocks ergo evolution is right and God is wrong.

That is an answer, mine. But in reality, you can't ignore biologists. Especially a "vast" majority of them.

If, however, you need backup, try chemists, physicists, or other "sci-types".

Answer 5

How would you go about reducing an organism to a simpler organism anyway? And how does that disprove evolution (it's not like evolution says we can get cut down into the different species we derived from).

Answer 6

"I could just as easily say that a reducibly complex alien race created us. I highly doubt it, but being that there is no evidence for either the God theory or the alien theory, then both theories equally likely."

On the first point you are correct. I.D. does not prove the existence of God however it does make a strong case for a super intelligent and advanced designer for the myriad life forms here on earth.

Michael Behe has upset the comfort of the Darwinists by highlighting a design attribute that he terms "irreducible complexity." Consider, as an example, the familiar household mousetrap.

This simple device consists of five essential parts: (1) a platform which holds (2) a hammer driven by (3) a spring when restrained by (4) a holding bar until released by (5) a catch. This basic design has defied attempts to simplify it further, or to reduce its complexity. The significant feature is that with only four of the five parts one cannot catch 4/5ths as many mice! Its function depends on each of its essential elements, each of which involve substantial precision in their specification. "Natural selection" cannot operate until there is something to select from.

Behe then presents an example of "irreducible complexity" from nature by reviewing the tiny motor that powers the flagellum, which propels a bacterium through the water:

This tiny mechanism, positioned to penetrate the bacterium's protective outer membrane, consists of over 40 parts - each of which are essential to its functioning. Figure 4 presents a functional equivalent: with any of its 40 parts missing, this mechanism would not be functional and would be a casualty in the processes of "natural selection" postulated by the Darwinists. The bacterium, dependent upon its locomotion, would be likewise.

So how did it come about? All the Darwinists can do is assert rather than explain.

Darwinists love to postulate the "simple cell." With the advent of modern microbiology, we now know "there ain't any such thing." Even the simplest cell is complex beyond our imagining.

As Michael Denton has pointed out, "Although the tiniest bacterial cells are incredibly small, each is in effect a veritable microminiaturized factory containing thousands of exquisitely designed pieces of intricate molecular machinery, made up of 100,000,000,000 atoms, far more complicated than any machine built by man and absolutely without parallel in the nonliving world."

The "simple cell" turns out to be a miniaturized city of unparalleled complexity and adaptive design, including automated assembly plants and processing units featuring robot machines (protein molecules with as many as 3,000 atoms each in three-dimensional configurations) manufacturing hundreds of thousands of specific types of products. The system design exploits artificial languages and decoding systems, memory banks for information storage, elegant control systems regulating the automated assembly of components, error correction techniques and proofreading devices for quality control.

All by chance? All without a Designer? (How do you define "absurd?")

http://www.khouse.org/articles/2000/256/

The evidence for what you call "the God theory" exists in many areas. One of which is the divine origin of the Bible which tells us that God created all life on this planet.

http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/divine.htm

The Divine Inspiration
of the
Bible
by Arthur W. Pink
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Table of Contents
About This Book

Title

Introduction

Chapter One: There Is a Presumption in Favor of the Bible

Chapter Two: The Perennial Freshness of the Bible Bears Witness to its Divine Inspirer

Chapter Three: The Unmistakable Honesty of the Writers of the Bible Attests to its Heavenly Origin

Chapter Four: The Character of its Teachings Evidences the Divine Authorship of the Bible

Chapter Five: The Fulfilled Prophecies of the Bible Bespeak the Omniscience of its Author

Chapter Six: The Typical Significance of the Scriptures Declare Their Divine Authorship

Chapter Seven: The Wonderful Unity of the Bible Attests its Divine Authorship

Chapter Eight: The Marvelous Influence of the Bible Declares its Super-Human Character

Chapter Nine: The Miraculous Power of the Bible Shows Forth That its Inspirer Is the Almighty

I. The Power of God's Word to Convict Men of Sin.
II. The Power of God's Word to Deliver Men From Sin.
III. The Power of God's Word Over the Human Affections.

Chapter Ten: The Completeness of the Bible Demonstrates its Divine Perfection

Chapter Eleven: The Indestructibility of the Bible Is a Proof that its Author Is Divine

Chapter Twelve: Inward Confirmation of the Veracity of the Scriptures

Chapter Thirteen: Verbal Inspiration

Chapter Fourteen: Application of the Argument

I. We Need to Seek God's Forgiveness.
II. It Is the Final Court of Appeal.
III. It Is the Ultimate Standard for Regulating Conduct.
IV. It Is a Sure Foundation for Our Faith.
V. It Has Unique Claims Upon Us.

Answer 7

Aliens don't solve the problem at all, they just push the problem back a level to the origin of alien life.

Answer 8

Correct.

But as you said, no biologist thinks there is any credibility to irreducible complexity.

Answer 9

sounds like a statement not a question

of course there are Nobel laureates who totally agree life must have been designed

but Jesus coming back from the dead, that would be even a greater act than creation, resurrection from the dead as proof that he died for sins and was raised for their justification

Answer 10

you are right irreducible complexity is a joke.