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John 3:4-6

Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Verse 5 says that you can't enter the kingdom of God unless you have been physically born. "Born of water" refers to physical birth as clarified (as if it wasn't already clear enough) by verse 6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh."

So, since the unborn cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven, either God has it in for the unborn, or they are not yet souls. The idea that the unborn are not yet souls is supported by other bible verses as well and there are none that contradict this point of view. Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that abortion isn't a sin according to the bible - just not murder.

2007-08-17 06:30:50 · 44 answers · asked by Anonymous in Society & Culture Religion & Spirituality

Whenever an ignorant Christian doesn't like what the bible says, he claims the person quoting it has taken it "out of context". I have INCLUDED the context. I think maybe what they mean by "out of context" is out of the context of their theology.

2007-08-17 06:39:00 · update #1

The fact that God knew you before He formed you doesn't contradict what I'm saying. God knew everyone from eternity. Does that mean we have all existed from eternity?

2007-08-17 06:41:02 · update #2

Read, people. I didn't say the passage supports abortion. I said it says it isn't murder. I stated straight out that the bible doesn't approve of abortion.

2007-08-17 06:41:55 · update #3

There is no reason, given the CONTEXT of these verses, to believe that "born of water" has anything to do with water baptism. Jesus is telling Nicodemus that you have to be born twice to enter the kingdom of heaven, once of water and once of Spirit. "Can I again enter into the womb of my mother?" Come on, people. Get over your preconceived, spoon fed theology and just READ THE VERSES.

2007-08-17 06:44:29 · update #4

Kimmy. That verse in Exodus refers to a miscarriage in which the baby dies. The death in view is that of the mother. By the way. You really ought to do a verse by verse comparison of that particular scripture among the various and sundry translations. You can see that they give the experts a great deal of trouble.

2007-08-17 06:47:44 · update #5

I have offered justification for my interpretation of these verses. It hardly qualifies as interpretation since, yes, it is very clear. You have to twist the verses really hard and take them way "out of context" in order to decide that "born of water" means anything other than physical birth.

2007-08-17 06:51:39 · update #6

Nicole. I haven't stated that an unborn child is of no importance. It is God's handiwork and a vessel for the soul and a great miracle. Unfortunately for those who would like to criminalize abortion, the Bible doesn't support the idea that an unborn child is a soul or that the killing of that child is the same as killing a soul filled person.

2007-08-17 06:55:14 · update #7

Just look at the parallel language in verses 5 and 6. "of water and of the Spirit" - "out of flesh and out of Spirit". If Jesus was talking directly to you and used these words, you would never in a million years think "out of water" meant something other than out of the water in the womb.

2007-08-17 06:59:44 · update #8

44 answers

Jer 1:5

5 "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,
before you were born I set you apart;
I appointed you as a prophet to the nations."
NIV

Luke 1:41-42
1 When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.
NIV


Sounds like with these verses there is something going on...more than just nothing.

2007-08-17 06:43:12 · answer #1 · answered by Nicole B 4 · 4 0

Dude. that part of scripture has nothing to do w/abortion not being murder. they were talking about a completely diffent subject, which was accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior and Son of God, and living accordingly, which is "born again". Where in the world did you get the idea that that is what that particular part of scipture meant? And what do you mean, ".....either God has it in for the unborn, or they are not yet souls?" When a human being is beathing, moving and growing, it means they are alive, and their soul is present in their body. When a human dies, their soul leaves them. An unborn child in the womb is breathing, moving, and growing, so why would they not have a soul yet? As fas as God having it in for the unborn, I dont know. No one can explain God's plan, but if this were true, then God must have had it in for every single person in history who was ever murdered, not just the unborn. (Yes, murder). I suggest you get more education on the Bible, and not just rely on your own knowledge.

2007-08-17 08:52:53 · answer #2 · answered by Anonymous · 1 1

ROFL! The fact that you're using this as a pro-abortion stance clearly shows that you don't understand Christianity at all.

So how would you twist these two verses to justify abortion?

Psalm 127:3 -- Behold, children are a gift of the LORD,The fruit of the womb is a reward.

Deuteronomy 30:19 -- This day I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now CHOOSE LIFE, so that you and your children may live.

YES, the Bible actually says "Choose Life"! (FYI that's the New International Version., NASV and KJV also say those words.) IMHO you actually hurt your cause today.

2007-08-17 07:19:00 · answer #3 · answered by kaz716 7 · 1 1

If I understand you correctly , you are saying that since the fetus is not born, it cannot enter into the kingdom of God, which is to quote the scripture. I agree. To say that tearing the fetus from the mothers womb in pieces is not murder is ludicrous. It is murder and you nor anyone else can prove that it is not.

2007-08-17 06:45:48 · answer #4 · answered by loufedalis 7 · 3 0

Wrong. First off they re talking about being born again Christian. The water is you definition. If you don't believe in the bible how can you use it? Murder is Murder. You know it otherwise you would have not needed this post to confirm what you think you know. It is a cruel and horrible thing you do when you have an abortion.

2007-08-17 06:44:40 · answer #5 · answered by Anonymous · 1 1

I can take a section of verses from the bible out of the context of the entire bible and twist it around to mean whatever I want it to also, just like you did with the Nicodemus conversation. What you say is just a bunch of logic and does not mean anything like what the passage is intended to mean. So you typing that and me typing this is a big waste of time for both of us.

2007-08-17 06:40:19 · answer #6 · answered by Gma Joan 4 · 1 1

Not sure I agree with the jump to a conclusion, but it's certainly no more of a stretch than many of the creative translations and interpretations that have become accepted doctrine. If nothing else, it shows how easy it is to manipulate scripture and statistics to serve a personal agenda. It's nice to see Fundamentalists get a taste of their own medicine for a change.

2007-08-17 06:47:19 · answer #7 · answered by kena2mi 4 · 1 1

This passage is referring to entering the Kingdom of Heaven and salvation. Do you really believe Jesus is making an abortion statement?

2007-08-17 06:43:32 · answer #8 · answered by Anonymous · 1 1

It seems to me that when Jesus is means 'born of water and of the Spirit' he is talking about baptism, being 'born again'.

'That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit'. Meaning that as people we have bodies made of meat and spirits made of spirit.

But everyone else uses the Bible only to back up what they already believed, so why not you too? 8^)

2007-08-17 06:40:01 · answer #9 · answered by Anonymous · 1 1

Exodus 21:22, 23

22 And in case men should struggle with each other and they really hurt a pregnant woman and her children do come out but no fatal accident occurs, he is to have damages imposed upon him without fail according to what the owner of the woman may lay upon him; and he must give it through the justices. 23 But if a fatal accident should occur, then you must give soul for soul,

2007-08-17 06:38:31 · answer #10 · answered by Kimmy 4 · 4 0

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