Can the F/A-22 Raptor shoot a long range A2A missile without disclosing its position?

Question

In an earlier question people mentioned about shooting down an antagonist before he knew the Raptor was there. I was wondering how the Raptor could get target's range and bearing information to cue its missiles. For discussions sake, imagine no friendly AWACS for and also that the target is beyond the missile's A-Pole.

Thanks for all the answers. I shouldn't have used the term "long range", Honza_Urban was right in pointing out that the Raptor doesnt have LR missiles. So please consider it to be any BVR missile. I should also have included a buddy plane in the exclusion rather than just the AWACS. The support Raptor will spoil the fun, the Raptor is out to prove that it is meaner than the meanest MiG or Sukhoi. It should do the job alone, shouldnt take his brothers to beat ONE challenger, right?

Dogzilla, I believe the term is "Frequency Agility Radar", not "Fixed Array" (or maybe Phased Array) But LPI is no longer Low Probability of Intercept, its quite easily detectable.

Varmint, Raper????? come on....

Answer 1

:)

well first of all I think the Raptor is not capable of carying of ANY long range weapon, with only short /sidewinger/ and medium /amraam/ missiles fitting the bay.

second all the science behind this is called electronic countermeasures. one vs one as stated in the mentioned question it is erally the problem of "who emmits first" the other guy would know the ..bearing, not range. I am not familiar with the opponent's onboard ECM equipment, and especially I am not sure of how the opponent would use his ARM /anti radiation missiles/.

generally said it would end up like two paranoic shotgun owners in the dark tunnel having flashlights.

well ME flying the raptor I would briefly scan the airspace every 120 secs for 5-10 secs , then standby radar and hard left/right 45 degrees new heading - coming towards the suspected enemy position in zig zag pattern until I would obtain the target. this should prevent opponent to emply the R27 homing on radar emission. the next lock on I would do longer, to fake I am trying to engage. radar stanby, 30degrees azimuth aside from the target descending below the target altitude, expecting enemy to turn head-on against the last lockon /my fake/ position. this could get me into the paralell position the descent and maneuver should help me to see the enemy in the sky and let me compute the gunnery solution for sidewinger. I would fire missiles in pairs, 4 sidewingers total and disengage. should do it if the pilot is dumb enough or GCI controlled /ground controlled interception -favourite russian tactics in the past/
dogzilla> to get a sidewinger lock you need to know where the enemy is - to point the sensor's line of sight onto the target. otherwise you would be jsut scanning the space frantically with the whole plane.

Answer 2

Yes it can.
Even though it briefly becomes less stealthy when it launches a missile, there are few systems if any that would detect it.
A radar not only needs to be pointed directly at the target, but it also needs a steady target, something that is moving erratically, or horizontally would be very difficult to detect.
It would be even harder to detect by a fighter because fighters only have forward looking radar, and only a few have fixed array radars, which dont have to scan each section of the sky individually and would without a doubt miss any opportunity to catch the raptor firing a missile.
Also, the raptor is one of the few aircraft to have a fixed array radar, which aids its stealthiness. It makes it exceptionally hard to triangulate the position the signal is coming from.
Fixed arrays also do not give away that they are locked onto a target, since the radar is always in search mode, so even if the target knew something was out there, he wouldnt know where or what it was doing.
And lastly, the radar can be switched off completely to avoid setting off a radar warning receiver. The raptor could simply fire a sidewinder without the use of a radar. Usually the radar is used to detect range when used with the sidewinder, but it can be fired without that information, simply by listening to the tone it emits.

Answer 3

The weapons bays only open momentarily, theoretically that gives you a detectable RCS, but you can arrange to do it when nobody is looking. Even if you get caught on one scan they won't see you on the next, so there's no chance to turn a plot into a track.

If you are using your own radar for search then everyone in the area knows where you are. Both sides. So the first shots can be taken speculatively at ultimate range, so that the only way you stand a chance of a hit is if the target keeps coming in at full speed and doesn't turn. Real world isn't likely to be so simple, the bad guys know your range too and they will start manoeuvering to avoid such speculative shots, waste of a multi million dollar missile and a significant proportion of your available firepower. If you run out of long range missiles before the other guy then you have to hope he'll be charitable enough to let you in close.

Can it do it? BVR the F-22 has less advantage than close in, the Russians were making some 400 mile range missiles and their radar tends to be powerful. Depends how well their electronics has advanced since they've had easy access to western gear.

Answer 4

Some people are right in saying that the raptor can't carry and long range missles, its designed to operate primarily with the AMRAAM which has a range between 45 and 112 miles, but it is still classified as medium range. However, I would like to point out that yes it can in fact fire this missle without disclosing its position despite what everyone else said. The F-22 has a datalink system in which one raptor flying seperate can feed radar information to other raptors. This means that one raptor is exposed due to its radar being on, but the other all still get the radar info and fire using that. I believe using this method they could lock onto and engage 16 targets at one time (four raptors, four targets per plane). So yes, this would mean that three of the F-22s would still remain hidden miles away from the one that isn't.

Answer 5

Nope. Radar like Sonar or any Active Detection system, can be detected well out of range of it's own ability to detect a target.
Thus the lack of a Radar on board the F-117. Not much point in broadcasting your location if your in a Stealth Aircraft.
The Nighthawk uses Forward looking Infrared and Downward Looking Infrared to detect and strike it's targets.

While the Russians have installed Passive systems such as Infrared detection systems on their fighters the USA has not really jumped on this. The only Modern USA Fighter with a Passive System was the F-14's they had a Camera that had the ability to detect and track targets visually up to 30 miles away in good weather. These systems, FLIR and DLIR are used on a Routine basis on Fighters, and Strike Aircraft.

BTW No Aircraft known is TOTALLY Invisible to Radar. You crank up the power enough and you can Track an Ant walking on the ground.

Answer 6

IF it occurs, there will be fairly some griping and complaining interior the worldwide press and interior the UN construction. China won't commence a worldwide conflict, because of the fact they'll purely attack an adjacent usa to offer them extra land. N. Korea will sue interior the UN court docket>result? who cares! no substantial conflict will upward push up because of the fact the destruction of an in-flight missile would be adequate to teach the contest that they can't attain us!

Answer 7

If the Raptor can "see" the enemy before the enemy locates him, he may be able to manuever himself out of the line of sight of the enemies radar in order to fire and not be seen. That is the only scenario I can think of where he could fire a missile and not be detected.

Answer 8

The FA-22 Raper has a lot drag in other words when shooting your target you disclosing the position can be seen on radar. The FA-18 Hornet has the ability to track multiple targets. The Raptor however can't track multiple targets. The FA-18 Hornet is slick and doesn't have a lot of drag. The FA-18 Hornet is Aggressive, Demanding, and Graceful and it's very advanced in it's capability.

Answer 9

No, when a F/A22 opens it's ordnance doors it is viable on radar