Can someone please give a logical explanation for Calvinism that isn't fatalistic?

Question

Cusper: if "will inevitably happen will happen" then there is no "cause-and-effect", just an illusion thereof...

Jonathan: I have the Works of John Calvin in my library, and have read it... To me it's pure fatalism. If you are not predestined, you cannot change it; if you are predestined, you cannot change it. It takes away any reason to live morally.

Steve: if "man always chooses what God has predestined" then there is no free will.

Answer 1

The scripture teaches that God has predestined all things before the foundation of the world and His eternal decree is not conditioned by any act of human will.

However, God's predestination does not preclude human responsibility. On contrary, our actions show forth what God has predestined before the foundation of the world.

We do have the free will, however its bondage to our sins.

As the reformed confession states, “God had endued the will of man with that natural liberty, that it is neither forced, nor, by any absolute necessity of nature, determined to good, or evil.”

Furthermore, “Man, by his fall into a state of sin, had wholly lost all ability of will to any spiritual good accompanying salvation.”

Though man has free will to choose good or evil, man always chooses what God has predestined.

Judah Iscariot exercised his free will by betraying Jesus to the cross; nevertheless, Judah by his (free will) action fulfilled what God had predestined before the foundation of world; “Jesus the Lamb of God slain before the foundation of world.”

Answer 2

If you don't believe that man is in a sinful, totally depraved condition from the start, Calvinism will make no sense to you. Hyper-Calvinism is fatalism and more along the lines of what "cusper" said. Calvinism itself simply starts off with the premise that original sin has placed all of mankind under a federal representation of Adam and we are guilty before the Lord. That means that it takes a loving God to pull us away from that. Predestination is therefore love, not ants under a magnifying glass!

It's not about God condemning some because He is showing off His power. Creating Hell for that purpose would make God the author of evil, and this is not so. Rather it's about Man losing fellowship with God from the start (supra lapsarianism or infra lapsarianism is up to you), and needing salvation. God in His grace has provided that means through His Son, when He shouldn't have done so in the first place.

Answer 3

It's all about perspective. Calvinism believes what will inevitably happen will happen. It's actually quite scientific. We live in an environment bound by time where there is really only one outcome to everything. Until it happens, the best we can do is work with what we perceive to be our own free will. Our life really isn't different from a Calvinist point of view.

Fatalistic? I don't see it that way. Calvinism doesn't predict the future, it just says it's laid out. There's still cause-and-effect.

Great question though.
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Hi meshugga42 - In my opinion, what you're saying is valid, but I'd challenge the viewpoint. We have a reality and that reality is bound by time. If we understood everything about the world (and I really mean everything), we could predict everything that would ever happen. We are so far from knowing everything. We can't even forecast the weather that accurately. So, what's the point of living if every little thing is pre-destined already? Life (and our reality) is about going along for the ride. We are parts of destiny, not victims of it. The outcome of taking a rollercoaster ride is pretty predictable, but you do it anyway. Taking a risk in your career is less predictable, but you still do it if you want a different experience.

Answer 4

Calvinism stresses the sovereignty of God over all things. It goes to extremes on such matters as predestination but holds to all the essentials of the Gospel. Calvinism at best glorifies God in everything.

Answer 5

Yes indeed Calvin is very thought provoking and you have touched on the essence of predestination. We do have free will - to chose different forms of evil. We don't have free will to chose God - because Satan and sin prevent that. As it says about believers - in John 1:13; '... who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

Answer 6

you may want to read the book "Calvin's Calvinism" by John Calvin; see link below or Yahoo! or Google "Calvin's Calvinism".

Answer 7

you wasted enough time here move on.