Training question.?

Question

When training a dog and applying a physical correction, do you think it's better if the dog knows the correction came from you or remotely? Which do you think is better?
Please, only serious answers with the focus being on physical corrections.

I will supply the answer tomorrow in why I believe that a correction is better if it comes remotely. Good answers so far though.

Shepherdgirl, you nailed it, right on. Excellent answer. That folks is the reason that it is better that the correction comes from a remote source. So much for Electric collars being no good....

Answer 1

It is better if the dog thinks the behavior caused the correction because you need trust between you and the dog to have a good working relationship and every correction from you damages that trust a bit. Once trust is lost you will never fully gain it back. With remote correction the dog gets to decide not to engage in behaviors that cause the correction. It learns that certain behaviors cause the correction and the dog will do its best to avoid the correction and the trust between you and the dog will not be damaged.

Answer 2

I also think the correction should not be associated with coming from me. I want to be the refuge of safety and love for my dog. For my dog to respect me as the boss.

I adopted a lovely yellow lab who was in need of special handling. I was a vet tech for many years and had experience handling difficult pets. She wasn't mean,but had not been taught "a thing". Was tied outside her entire life with little human contact. She didn't even look at us, but past us. As if we were none existent. Didn't know how to play with anything. Cowed down with sudden hand movements,flashlights sent her into a rage. To make a long story short, we overcame all but one of her behaviors---Barking none stop for no reason. I cannot stand a barking dog, tried all I could think of. Finally came to buy a bark collar. The kind that sounds a high frequency when dog barks. What a joke that was. No affect what-so-ever. Okay, will try another kind of bark collar. Yes, the kind that sends a slight shock when the dog barks 3 times in a row. I did try it on myself, wow. No mistaking,can really feel that. She barked, the collar shocked. She barked, the collar shocked. Then QUIET. At last. Now, just putting the collar on shuts her up. I know, I felt mean doing it. She never ever thought I did it. Remotely is the way to go! The trust is not betrayed as with a physical slap of newspaper or whatever.

Answer 3

I think that it is better that the dog knows that it is coming from you. that way when it does something new that is wrong you do not have to go buy a new thing to train it. Also if you are out in an area then it will know that you are the boss and it you tell it to stop it wont think that it will not be punished for acting out. Now I am not talking about beating your dog, but a pinch of the cheek or a lite swat on the butt or nose depending on what the dog has done wrong. Like for barking why go buy a shock collar when you tap the dog on the nose and tell it to stop. beside some shock collars are set to high fr the dog and you can do more damage then good. Also you don't want your dog to think it is bad to bark, just unnecessary to bark at somethings.

Answer 4

I think it's much better if the dog is corrected remotely. If he thinks that his behaviour caused the correction I think he responds better.. Rather than being worried that You corrected him, he can better concentrate on the fact that his behaviour was corrected, and learning what he should have done, or what he did wrong.

Some dogs aren't that forgiving.. They can resent a correction and be stuck on the fact that they were corrected.. If they don't think that it was you, they will get over it quicker. Not going to hold a grudge like they might if they knew it was you doing the correcting.
I don't think a dog that holds a grudge should be seriously worked in sport tho.. Too much baggage working against training.. A forgiving dog is a better dog to work.

Answer 5

I have seen dogs physically punished using remote collar correction stop offering behavior entirely or become immune to corrections because of confusion about what is being punished and/or why the punishment is being applied. I have seen dogs temporarily stop doing a behavior while a remote collar is on, but continue once the collar is off.

I have seen dogs physically punished using hands-on correction who become wary of and/or aggressive towards their owners, stop offering any new behavior entirely, temporarily stop offering the behavior until they know they are out of reach/sight of the owner, or begin to act aggressively toward other dogs.

For a physical correction (or any positive punishment) to be effective, it must be
1) Applied within no more than 3 seconds of the behavior;
2) Applied every single time the behavior occurs;
3) Applied with enough force as to override the pleasure of the behavior, but not so much force as to cause a stress reaction.

Because I can't apply physical punishment perfectly, I now avoid it at all costs when training. My first European-bred GSD was physically punished to achieve obedience titles; he performed well, but hated going into the ring (though he didn't signal it, lest he be punished). My second European-bred GSD was not physically punished to achieve obedience titles and received a High in Trial award the first time she set foot in the ring. As a result of abandoning physical punishment, I also always know how she feels about a situation, and how intensely she feels it.

I find the principal applies to real-life behaviors needed by my clients' dogs, as well.

Answer 6

Physical correction in MOST cases should be no more than a simple wake up touch. I use a "biting, snapping" method using my hand as a mouth to physically snap them to alertness. They seem to get that better. They know it came from me. The only thing I use remotely would be training collars for the stubbornest ones. But seldom have a need for it. Even the shock collars are designed to use the sound more. The dog associates the beeping to the shock so when it hears the collar beep, it stops the unwanted behavior.

Answer 7

For sport-dog training, it won't make much different.
For real life dog (k9, guard, protection). we train/ conditioning them to believe they cannot be stop by anybody other than their handler. Finished dog won't take command from others. the dog won't take food from others. and the dog won't take correction from others ( there are secondary caretakers,like family member, which they will follow) . When dog is send out, he know he will get the job done and nobody can stop him. He is not worry about someone stopping him with remote control.
To training them to this way, Only handler can correct his/her dog. Even e-collar, the dog has to understand that correction is from direction of his handler.
If you give collection right, it won't break bond between team. It's not matter of e-collar and prong. It all to do with trainer and his ability to train the dog.

Answer 8

the correction, if apply ed ,by remote. sends a message ,very fast ,but doesn't inform the dog that ,that you the owner ,did it ,
so it doesn't . believe you are in fact hurting the dog .
the choke chain,or spiked collar, on the other hand, needs the owner, to manually, converge ,the message , I'm not sure
if ,this has a negative affect, over all, but both work.
ive found my voice some times can ,be over powering ,with out ,any correction , booming OUT has the same affect

Answer 9

I rarely use physical correction and prefer a praise/reward/operant conditioning form of training... However there are moments when this is not possible... at those times...

I'm in favor of "the hand of God".. a remote correction. In my experience it doesn't add any color to the training experience (i.e. dog that suddenly shys because it is afraid you're going to whap it).

For me, physical corrections come in a couple basic styles

The natural correction- dog forges hard to the end of the leash, I do an about-face and the dog is momentarily strangled because he was not watching the insane lady trainer (me). I usually accompany this with an "oh dear.. watch me" and then praise the "watch me".

The reactive correction- dog loses its mind and decides to lift its lip or growl at me. email me for what happens next

The guiding correction- using a rod or dowel to guide the dog into a heeling position. This is pretty benign but does involve physical contact.

Answer 10

I am not a trainer, but my opinion is they should know it came from you. It reinforces the dominant pack-leader position. That would be especially important with dominant dogs. (Is that the right answer? Do you agree?)

I am not sure that fearful dogs should get a harsh correction at all though... just a touch or a word. My opinion is that fearfulness is just a genetic personality defect that can't be corrected, but sometimes worked around depending on the ability to find a quiet suitable home. Of course those dogs can never be fully trusted even if they are trained. (Just my opinion.) But they can make nice pets for older, quiet adults who live a more secluded lifestyle.