Isn't it amazing how SOME non-Christians know what Christians believe better than Christians do?

Question

Just the most recent example I've come across: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070814084947AActXsf&r=w&pa=FZptHWf.BGRX3OFMiTNUUNCQbR4shPPbfafBkoo41A5OHAzIqw--&paid=answered#BoxIWTPiL3gyQ4RNOA6s

And isn't it amazing how almost every Christian basically gave an answer that differed from what the non-Christians claimed they believed? Thanks all the same, but I was under the impression that we could speak for ourselves. Or are some of you simply worried that what we say might make sense that you have to go around constructing straw men to parody?

"Isn't it amazing that you cannot read? He wrote 'if I understand correctly,' not 'This is how christianity works...'"
I guess you missed the "The correct understanding is that if you accept Jesus, you have a one-way ticket to Heaven, no matter what you do during your life." Or "rape, murder, steal all u want, as long as u ask jesus to forgive u before u die ur good.... thats what it boils down to." If you want more examples, there's plenty there. Perhaps you should have asked for clarification before jumping on my question?

"bible thumpers are the LAST people who should tell others about 'making sense'"
Appeal to ridicule.... I can define that for you as well, if need be.

"Now if you could only think for yourselves."
I've never had any problem with that before.

"In laymans terms, that's called a "canned response"."
And as I've already noted, the majority of the Christians answered with something else rather than what the non-Christians said they would.

"Learn the... dedfinition of a strawman"
"The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position." Source: http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/straw-man.html
Seeing as the vast majority of the Christians said exactly the opposite of what the non-Christians claimed they believed, how is that not misrepresentation?

"In all real world situations the key to winning at anything is understanding your opponent more than he understands himself."
I've just shown that the non-Christians didn't understand the Christian position (unless they deliberately misrepresented them).

"You need to understand the inherent ambiguity of the rather subjective terms."
I'm using the terms as they are used by the bible, which states that if one truly accepts Christ, there will be a change in behavior. No change in behavior means no true repentance of sin means not a Christian.

"Isn't it amazing how the vast majority of atheist have read and know more about what is contained in the bible than most Christians?"
If so, it's amazing how many of them make simple, common errors that could be corrected with a little study.

"A lot of us non-Christians were once Christians....so we actually do have a pretty great idea of what the beliefs are."
Which also goes against the evidence since so many of the predicted answers conflicted with the actual answers given by Christians.

"Of course, that's if any Christian groups can even come to agreement on what the beliefs of the religion are."
Christians don't need to agree with each other, they need to agree with the bible.

"I have read the Bible from cover to cover. One reason I'm an atheist."
And yet, reading just about any book, especially one written in a different cultural setting such as the bible, from cover to cover by no means confer extensive knowledge of said book. That requires study, an area which most atheists who attempt to criticize the bible seem to be sorely lacking in.

Answer 1

This knife cuts both ways. Time and time again, we see Christians explaining (incorrectly) why atheists believe what they do. We will never make significant progress until both sides abandon what they imagine the other side believes and actually listen to what the other side is saying.

Answer 2

I personally do not speak for what ALL Christians believe. When I speak on Christian teachings, it is usually to describe the Orthodox Christian teachings I was raised with. These teaching differ in some ways from the Protestant denominations which make up the majority of Christian believers in the US although world-wide the Orthodox Churches are 2nd in total membership after the Roman Catholics.

As I was RAISED Orthodox Christian, I would be expected to know what Orthodox Christian teachings are, would I not?

Answer 3

"And isn't it amazing how almost every Christian basically gave an answer that differed from what the non-Christians claimed they believed?"

In laymans terms, that's called a "canned response"....politicians are great at it.

"Thanks all the same, but I was under the impression that we could speak for ourselves"

Now if you could only think for yourselves...................


"Or are some of you simply worried that what we say might make sense that you have to go around constructing straw men to parody?"

Learn the a) dedfinition of a strawman and b) bible thumpers are the LAST people who should tell others about "making sense"

Answer 4

Lots of people are ignorant. This includes atheists and christians. Has everyone tried every religion in the world? I don't think so.
I think people make way too many generalizations about other people and don't think about what EXACTLY each person might believe.
And why are atheists worried about reading the Bible and paying attention to other Holy things if they don't really believe in it?
Oh, and by the way, why use the word God if you don't believe in Him?

Answer 5

Believe it or not, most Christians do understand what the Atheist is telling us. It is of a physical nature. However, Atheists don't comprehend what we are saying because God tells us that they won't unless they have God's Spirit. So try not to be angry at them. Our goal as Christians is to present Jesus to the world so that they can receive Him and be given the Holy Spirit. They must decide on their own what they want to do about Him.

We know that we are no better than the Atheist. We are just forgiven and that is only because we have accepted Jesus as our Lord and our Savior. It's not anything that we ourselves have done.

Answer 6

Why do find that amazing ? .During the Cold War don't you think that the Russian Army understood the strengths and weakness's of the American Army better than the Americans did and vice versa ? In all real world situations the key to winning at anything is understanding your opponent more than he understands himself.

Answer 7

Compare such answers to what the typical christian representation in the world is, and you'll understand it.

Sure, not all christians are like that. And sure, maybe they aren't real christians by some definitions. But the going standard is "as a christian I'm better than you, and you nonbelievers are all going to roast in hell regardless of how good a person you are."

Answer 8

One thing that isn't taken into account is that God has an advanced technology to work with.
Tell me how the ancient Israelites knew how to make a capacitor? After all, that's what the Ark of the Covenant is. That's why it instantly killed all who touched it except those certain priests.
Look at some of the visions that the prophets experienced and insert a little of today's technology into them and you find photography, electric lights, loud speakers, and flying machines.

Answer 9

perhaps

I believe that a large portion of any relgion stay there because it is what they are secure in, and not particularly because they believe it. Also, they are spoon fed this information weekly at church. Being baptised Christian, doesn't mean you know what Christianty is about.

On the other hand, people who are REALLY Christian, the kind who study it, and live by it, and really believe it- they can kick a non- believer's butt.

The bible (and I'm not Christian) is not a simple tale of stories, the stories are the top layer. Most people (and nearly all non-believers) never get past that top layer. It is called "scripture" not because it lays out what is right and wrong, but because you can learn from it no matter what layer of spiritual depth you have reached.

I have a devouted Christian friend- who doesn't interpert the scriptures differently (as that is against her belief) but seeks to see a stronger meaning. She told me once that most people in her church recite pieces of the scripture to fit their purpose, but they don't really understand what that scripture is refering to.

Even the people who know the stories, can pull out parts of the bible for any purpose- it does't mean they "know" the bible.

Answer 10

I thought that the current teaching was salvation through faith alone?


Edit: Ah, you used the "True Christian" skit. The "my religion is super and anybody who isn't does not follow my religion". You need to understand the inherent ambiguity of the rather subjective terms. When person A states statement A, you need to assume he is using the most commonly held definitions if you wish to begin to oppose his claim (easiste axiom to build), and not your specialized definition.