Self-interest and spirituality..?

Question

It seems to me that the most selfish people, really have very little sense of who they actually are. Their narcissism is built on insecurity and a lack of real self awareness. Their grandiosity is a kind of defensive compensation. A house of cards that needs continual support.

It seems to me that somebody trying to be selfless without addressing their shadow, (their unconscious individuality), could grow into quite a monster.

**Spirituality usually emphasises selflessness and oneness, but is it important to be conscious of, respect and honour our self-interest and individual needs too?

I seem to be getting a bit of flak.

Look I'm really not trying to come down on spirituality, I practice myself and value it highly.

Please don't think I am preaching or critisizing, maybe that's the way it looks in print?

My thoughts are based on many years of personal therapy, (I'm not issue free or looking down on anybody!)

I've been training as a therapist myself.

I'm thinking more about people who get ill or out of balance rather than people in general.

the question is after the two ** (stars)

I AM ABSOLUTELY NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES EQUATING SPIRITUAL PRACTICE WITH NARCISSISM!

EDIT:
TO NBM and the other people who understood what I'm getting at, thanks.
I think Body-awareness plays a vital role in this. Baggins may be able to tell us more about that.

I'm not sure that Narcissistic Personality Disorder is insurmountable.
I really like the work of S.M.Johnson.

Object relations really needs to be integrated with the Transpersonal models.

I'm not knocking anybody. It's just that I think that it is important to have our feet on the ground before we stick our heads in the stars. Everybody wants to be 'limitless' but accepting 'limitation' is actually most peoples spiritual task, FACT.

I know what can happen when the personal/shadow work is neglected...
I've met people with personality disorders and attended their funerals after they killed themselves.
I've been to prison myself for violence.
Trust Me, you do not want to find out.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
EDIT:
'O'
Being spiritual is not tied to being selfish.
The question is after the two stars (**)

The diatribe is because people are misreading the question.~~~

Answer 1

So whats the question son?

Answer 2

So much to say.

I'm not sure there is a consensus amongst us all on what self-interest actually is. Is it something that only occurs in the physical universe? The references to narcissism seem to imply that it occurs in the plane of Unity.

If someone wants to sit on the couch... it is sometimes seen as self-interest and sometimes selflessness.

My thoughts now jump to this question: If another person's word can disturb your state, did you really own that state? Where you really there?

And if those words don't, is there some greater secret that you.... let me change perspective

And if there is someone you see, also of your state, who is not disturbed by such, do they know something you don't?

Is that undisturbed person sitting on the couch?

One of the tools used to attain Oneness is the letting go of the past, even so far (wait, I just noticed, that should be "near" shouldn't it) as the previous second. But what if you had attained and retained the Oneness and found a secret "outside" or "above" the Oneness that permitted you to leave it, without losing awareness of it.

What could you accomplish? I wonder....

Answer 3

Spirituality does promote selflessness. Unfortunately spirituality and religion are two different things. When spirituality/religion becomes organized and preached, it stunts self growth and people tend to be selfless only to get praise and commended by those who front the organization. Whether a person agrees or disagrees with our own personal beliefs and convictions, as free human beings they deserve the dignity of respect and honour that we ourselve's demand. People dont realize they are exactly who someone else wants them to be. ( from an economic view point)

Answer 4

Spiritual growth does require examination of the Self. Whether this is done selfishly or not depends upon how it is approached.
If this is done truthfully one not only becomes Self aware but also more aware of others.
It can also not be done honestly without addressing the ego. If this is ignored then a monster can be created.
True spiritual awareness occurs on both conscious and subconscious levels, it does not always require an act of withdrawal, and neglecting the needs of others. In fact, if you have been through any form of transition, you will be aware that it is normally through facing the shadowy areas of the self that one can move again into the areas of illumination.
As a small part of something larger you have to acknowledge the effect you have upon others.

Was that a bit heavy?

Answer 5

Obviously we’re not to be wise in our own eyes [Prv 3:7]. Scripture was inspired by the one and only lawgiver, and his wisdom supersedes all. Yet, how are we to distinguish between those who oppose God, Christ, and His Word? Albeit, some like Judas, oppose Him even with a kiss being a song and a dance.

It is written, Judge not, that ye be not judged [Mt 7:1]. Yet I have found that there are some who are unable to grasp what this means. They think if they say a person is good they have not judged. Yet when you proclaim a person is good, haven't you judged him as not being bad? So if you say a person is good or bad, haven’t you judged him either way? A con-artist understands that most don’t adhere to Christ’s teachings, as they judge others. Therefore, a con-artist knows he has to look good in order to deceive. And if a con-artist knows this wouldn't Satan?

However, we are unable to judge anyone because in reality we're not able to see the motivating factor that is in the heart. We can assume a person is doing something for the same reason we would. This is why Scripture tells us when we judge someone; it is how we are judged.

I believe to be Spiritual is to be one with His Spirit. As far as self interest, you have to love and care about your own soul before you can care about anyone else. This is because we love others as ourself. And if you don't care about your own soul how can you care about anyone else?
welcome2armageddon.com

Answer 6

As The Justice League Explained

Answer 7

There is NO doubt that you are correct. What you are bringing up is THE most prevalent spiritual problem but I do NOT see how these people can be helped. How is it possible to 'coax' self-awareness out of narcissism - especially people that pride themselves on their pseudo-spirituality - which tends to exist in either fundamentalist or "oneness" extremes. The throwing pearls quote comes to mind. You know them by their defensiveness.

As far as helping people who's narcissism has run them into a ditch - perhaps only forcing them to see their fake identity as the problem (because it is insane) is the only way to ultimately help them reconnect to authentic being in a therapeutic way. But, many therapists won't touch this kind of personality disorder.

I think the shadow/spirituality issue is horrific in its consequences for civilization, but can only be approached in a generational way - bringing religion closer to its basic psychological truth - as opposed to the rule-bound dualistic attachments.

Thanks for the question.

Answer 8

I think our deepest work, begins with the self. In projecting yourself, what are your options? This is really an infinite process of (literally picture the figure 8, here) of what I've said before about the building of character. We are Earthly beings. Now, this is considered by alot of people to be a lesser/different experience than what Spirituality is all about.

What I'm seeing here is that they were ONE experience at one time. A simple ability to project your spiritual desires in the medium of a physical body. Through the millenia we have altered our bodies significantly and became less able to do alot of the 'powers of spirit' that we're truly capable of doing, and being. Just look around, at the controlling forces and who we are, and see how detrimental it has been to be ruled. You don't use a part of your current body, it dies off and becomes weakened. What has our current world structures and attentiveness to allusion done to our spiritual significance here?

There are keys in how to reconnect this tangled up DNA (if you will), but it's all in our higher vibrational energies.

The ones you trigger when you are self-aware. When you chose to be at every given moment what you want to be.

Love
Kindness
heart
peace
humor
honest
precise
disciplined
giving
recieving
passionate
gracious

YOu are exactly right, if no attention is paid to the inside, moving on out to how you affect the world. Your affect will never be coming from a place of Spirit. But of Eartly gain. Now, someone those two things became separate, and we are used in this regard by many forces, including our very own greed.

self adds to all equations of Oneness. That is what we are doing here. In Oneness we could all sit on our collective sofa's watching the game knowing that Oneness is all there is, and this would be true, However, it became matter. So, For me, that means the game is something to be played. With impeccibility and heart. Which, also means on the ground with mud on my face alot. But never on the bench.

TAGGED by the Cosmic Task force for the spreading of
(((((((((Personal power and true affect))))))))

Answer 9

Forget all about that for now

There is a protected place on earth we found that is where the light is, we are going to regoup and begin to restore all the order from Error that was made in Terror and fear and now we are going to show Love and Peace as you see Spiderman died with his attitude now we have to find reasons for the light and see if it has link on earth. We found proof of the East holding a precious light on its wing. Salam
We are asking for order and peace inshAllah love they brother and neighbour we will return to a different order inshAllah be khair, much is not understood but what is given is more than enough to see the light.
Khair InshAllah Salam

Source(s):

We love you all and please love each other inshAllah - All books left unto man, point to a Promise Land, its not where they said it is, we been flying around it for a while but needed Al Quran to find it.
Khair inshAllah - hahaha thats what they been saying is Khair well here we go Khair we go! Come on Anna I get it now! Salam

Answer 10

It would seem that a lot of words in your question appear quite judgmental ( yes, I am aware of the paradox, calling something judgmental is judgmental ).

It's really very simple, if, as many of us suggest, we are all 'One' then whatever helps the 'self' helps the 'One'. If I hurt you, I am only hurting myself, and vice versa. If this seems a trifle 'trite' I'm sorry, but 'living' with these principles does eventually 'grow' on us.

By the same token, we can hardly give 'Love' to others if we cannot first give it to ourselves, and just as importantly we cannot 'forgive' others the perceived 'hurts' that they do to us, if we cannot 'forgive' ourselves.

This looks like 'circular' logic, and it part of the 'Great Paradox', that it does seem so, but, in the end only one's own personal experience can bring this into our own personal 'Truth'.

There is simply no 'proof' that anyone can offer, we all have to experience it for ourselves.

It is also true that to achieve true understanding we must develop 'detachment', and this same 'detachment' can look an awful lot like narcissism, self-interest if you will. It isn't, it is the breadth and depth of compassion to understand that someone may be 'suffering' intentionally, and that it is not always appropriate to interfere, and certainly never without 'permission'.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{Cosmic Compassion}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Answer 11

Some one told me once that Gods will for him was to help others without hurting himself and to help himself without hurting others. That oxygen mask comes down in the airplane Do we put it on the child first or on ourselves., Ourselves because IF we cant breath the child is helpless to help himself. WE have to take care of our own temple Clean our own side of the street. Remove the Log from our own Eye. I think spirituality is the practice of just that., If we have that others will want what we have and try to do what we do. There is no need to point the finger at anyone else.

ME im a Narcasistic bastard But I am trying.