Old Testament vs. New Testament...?

Question

Ok, first about the Sermon on the Mount(Matthew chapters 5-7), Jesus said "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."

When Jesus died on the cross He said, "It is finished". What was finished? The fullfillment of the old laws. Later in the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus also tells us what we, as Christians, need to do....Read Matthew 5-7 and you will know what Christians need to do and some of our "values" we should have.

As far as the "it's the same God" thing, you need to realize also, that Jesus wasn't in the old testament. God laid down all those laws as punishment for all their sins...so when Jesus came back he told us(in Matthew 5-7) that that was the laws we need to follow not all the others.

Sorry, I forgot to ask agree/disagree(wondering why no one was saying anything).

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It wasn't a sermon it was a followup on another question.

Seekers edit....

No one said God's covenants were everlasting except for the one Jesus made...

God was constantly "changing" his mind lol. But Jesus was like 'He will have His say at the end'(paraphrasing)

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MY QUESTION IS DO YOU AGREE/DISAGREE???

If you look up, I asked in Add details.

badbajore(or whatever) Jesus says, if you read it, you will see what I was refering to.

Hypono-Pope,

The WHOLE reasone Jesus was born and as crucified was to fulfill the needs of the old testament, the ultimate sacrifice....

Answer 1

OT vs NT on PAY-PER-VIEW. I'd root for the OT, there's a lot more carnage in there. The NT had a lot more peace-nik crap. I think the OT would kick the NTs asss.

Answer 2

Being very basic: The old testament is about god. The new testament, the way to god through Jesus. Third testament, the Koran? No it would not work. Humans in power positions do not play well with others and oppose changes that threaten their position. There are some that may accept but the hierarchy then promotes that the other beliefs be converted, or destroyed. That includes anyone that does not follow THEIR WAY. No matter the organized religion, the humans pervert the meanings for their own benefit. The basic theory may be good but the end problem is always the human factor.

Answer 3

The only question, other than the title of your question is:

"When Jesus died on the cross He said, "It is finished". What was finished?"

But it was apparently just a rhetorical question, because you answered yourself immediately, with:

"The fullfillment of the old laws."

I know it's complicated but you've got to get a handle on this question/answer process. Let's quit the peek-a-boo and just give us a straight question. What is it you want us to agree or disagree with?
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The vengeful, fearsome God of the Old Testament is just plain incongruous with the peaceful, gentle, forgiving God of the New Testament.

Yes, Jesus represents a new, everlasting covenant -- I get it. But so did Noah. If God's covenants are everlasting (it's right there in the bible), why did Jesus need to implement a new one? If God is omniscient and therefor infallible, why did he need an attitude adjustment?

Also: Jesus represents the 4th time God tried to "correct" mankind.

1.) Kicked Adam and Eve out of Eden because they were tempted by Satan (yet is was a huge accomplishment that Jesus resisted successfully).

2.) Destroyed all life, except for that on Noah's Ark, with a mountain-topping flood. God made an everlasting covenant with Noah and his descendents (us).

3.) Led his "chosen" people out of Egyptian bondage, with one incredible miracle after another. He delivered, via Moses, the Ten Commandments, that we might obey his laws.

4.) He gave his only begotten son to die on the cross for our sins.

What's with all these "attempts"? He's God. Man always turns out just as sinful as before. What will he try next?

P.S.
Here's the verses concerning the everlasting covenants:

Genesis 9:12 And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations.

Hebrews 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of a new covenant, that a death having taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first covenant, they that have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

I understand that the covenant with Abraham was retracted in the New Testament -- but I'm not including that covenant. Just the 2: Noah and Jesus.

Answer 4

Jesus also said "Lo, I come in the volume of the book". Its all about him. The gist of the Bible is not simply about observing laws. See Christ within the scripture. Understand that the entire Bible, Old and New Testament deal with what is required for man to be in right relationship with God. Not simple punishment. The strength of sin is the LAW. The law could only show man what was required of him but it could not empower man to obey it. That is just one of the reasons Jesus came. To fulfill it doesn't mean it was put away. It means now we are actually empowered by His spirit to live it from the heart and not as some legalistic approach to rules and regulations that we had no way of achieving. And that was not just a way of avoiding punishment because Jesus took care of that on the cross. When He said it is finished, it was that Salvation for man to have unencumbered access to God is complete. What was lost in Eden through Adams sin is now recovered. Thats why the veil was rent when Jesus died. We have full restored relationship with HIM. Too much is involved to be explained here. But I hope I have helped to answer your question. Just remember that Jesus gave to us the ministry of reconciliation, not judgement. He paid for that. And we are free from it if we accept Him and walk in right relationship with Him. It's all about relationship. Thank God for Grace.

Answer 5

In Matthew 5 - 7 Jesus DID tell us things. I just don't think that you caught on to what he actually said: To pray, fast, give to the poor, love one another, not to worry, etc.

What Jesus was talking about in Matthew 5 concerning the Law is HIS RELATIONSHIP to the Law. Our relationship to the Law is simple: We fail. His relationship is to fulfill it.

So it's not for us to live by a Law by works that we would fail like every person in history, but to live by faith and connect to His fulfillment of it.

As Peter stated in Acts 15:
6 The apostles and elders met to consider this question.
7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: "Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith.
10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are."

That is the message of Grace. And as Acts 15 shows, James was the one preaching works. And James was a Legalist. He had it wrong and therefore did not consider the words of Peter valid. There was disagreement in that council, and I agree with Peter on this one. You listen to who you want to listen to, but don't call the Jamesian message the same as Peter's.

Answer 6

"When Jesus died on the cross He said, "It is finished". What was finished? The fullfillment of the old laws. "

and you infer this because?

I'm sorry but it could mean anything.

"not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.""

But does that mean "everything Jesus came to accomplish" or "everything the universe was meant to accomplish" or what?

Answer 7

When He said it was fulfilled, He did not mean that some sins were ok to commit. One thing that was finished was animal sacrifices because Christ was now the sacrifice. To replace it we now have the sacrament.

Answer 8

Its all one long story.

I don't think you should worry about it. Are you Jewish? Then why worry about Jewish laws?

Read Hosea, about what God wants.

What was finished? The life of a man. Christ lives on, but Jesus died.

Where is it Jesus said, "That is the whole of the Law."?

Answer 9

My take on it is this, God seen that man could not live by his law. Therefor he sent Jesus to pay for our sin, In other words, when Jesus died on the cross, he paid for our sins so when God see you, if you have followed Jesus law, he sees the blood of Jesus not your sin. In other words, Jesus fulfilled Gods law.

Answer 10

Not True

God expects us to keep All the Law not just those in Matthew 5-7. He expects us to Love Him with all our heart soul mind and strength. He expects us to Love every person we know. He expects us to be perfect even as the Father and the Son are perfect. If we fall short of this we are condemned to hell. The law was given to show us that we cannot keep it. Desperate to avoid hell and broken of any notion that we are capable of keeping the law, we flee to Jesus Christ and his work on our behalf. Through his perfect life, sufferings, death and resurrection He makes us perfect. This is what was finished. This is the proper understanding of the Lawful use of the Law.

Answer 11

Jesus was a prophet for a new religion. He believed in the sacredness of the Old Testament. Read about the life of Abraham. What prophet is more sacred than Abraham? Everything that founds all Abrahamic religion is to be found in the parables of his life. He was holy.

Jesus told us to 'spread the gospel'. He wanted us to be compassionate and egalitarian. It is about how he lived his life and sacrificed himself at the alter of God for man's sins, as Abraham was willing to sacrifice his son for God.