Why can God just exist but the universe cant?

Question

If it is because the bibe, well thats just a book, and if it is because the universe is to complex then wouldnt god him self be to complex not to have a creator.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070809225053AAVZ3Bx&r=w

Answer 1

You are soooo right!!!!!!!!!

Answer 2

Great question!

This has to do with the difference between what "must be" and what "can be different from what it is now."

For example, in the base 10 number system 2 + 2 = 4. You, I and even god, are powerless to change that fact. There is no equation from which the roots of the general quintic can be derived. God may know the answer to:

5x^5 + 3x^4 - 7x^3 + 19x^2 + 11x + 3 = 0

but god cannot write down an equation that reveals the answer to every such equation.

These are properties which are said to be necessary. Other properties are not necessary. You parents might not have met, so you might never have existed. You, and I, are not necessary in the way that 2 + 2 = 4 seems to be.

Now then, is the universe necessary or not? Many arguments about the existence of god derive from the distinction between what is necessary and what is not. NOt all such arguments are good ones, but some seem cogent.

HTH

Charles

Answer 3

God can exist because the concept of God can exist outside the variable of time.
The universe can't exist because as a created entity (whether created by God or some other structure/entity/whatever) and defined by time, it must have a fixed start/end date. This isn't a Christian argument, although I am Christian, this is a fundamental truth and is based in philosophy/theology. It is because of the nature of time and it's subjective/objective qualities that cause it to be possible for God to exist where time doesn't.

Answer 4

You are correct to recognize the problem here. Christians prefer to pretend this problem isn't there.

Christians think by stating their god is timeless that this addresses the problem. It does not. The issue is not time, but one of complexity. The more complex a system is the more unlikely the possibility of that state just existing without exterior context. If a system has one bit the odds are one half. If a system has two bits of complexity the odds are one fourth etc .

Christians claim a god with infinite complexity and no external context. The odds for this are essentially zero.

By external context, one means the system is part of a greater system which provides context for it's state. Usually in the form of a selection effect, but it could also be an evolutionary mechanism or designer. But Christians claim their God, was neither designed, evolved nor was part of a greater whole.

The only possible answer to this conundrum of how reality exists, it seems to me is that reality as a whole is not complex but simple. Since the part of reality we see seems complex, it must have external context. The likely reason then for the observable complexity is a huge selection effect: ( Our own existence ). Only in locally complex regions within the simple whole can beings such as ourselves evolve.

Now having concluded reality as a whole is simple, meaning it has few if any alternative states. What can we conclude.

1. Reality as a whole is infinite and varied. ( Finite large systems cannot be simple ).

2. Reality as a whole is necessary. It has no exterior context to provide an external reason for it to be.

The only thing I am currently aware of which is infinite, varied, necessary and profoundly simple ( no alternative states ), is Mathematics. By Mathematics I simply mean necessary tautological truth. If nature is simply Mathematics then this question is solved.


You can't explain the ORIGIN of complexity by postulating a prior greater complexity.

Personally I believe reality is ultimately mathematics (necessary logical truth) . It only looks like space and time because we see so little of it. Nothing is ever really created. The key here is a powerful selection effect (our existence ) which selects the portion of reality we find ourselves in. Only in very interesting portions (ones that appear as rapidly expanding space-time) of this vast infinite reality could we evolve.

Our understanding of reality is layered. You see the world in terms of large physical objects. But you are aware that those are illusions made up of atoms, and atoms in turn are made of smaller particles. Many believe that these so called "fundamental" particles are not fundamental but are built on a layer of mathematical objects called strings. My belief is that all reality including space-time itself is built upon mathematics and mathematics is what is truly fundamental.

The reason why we see top layers instead of lower layers is due to our inability to see all of the the details in the lower layers.

The reasons for my belief are way too involved to cover here so I will just post a link to something simple enough that you might understand it. I fear my actual reasons are likely to be well beyond your comprehension unless you have a very advanced gaduate physics background.


http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/0704/0704.0646v1.pdf


As mathematics ( necessary logical truth ) is fundamental and necessary it is not created. Existence simply equals necessary truth. Mathematics "just is" because it is necessary and tautologically simple ( Zero complexity ). But Mathematics does not create reality. Mathematics is reality.

The problem with the design hypothesis is your god needs to be more complex and hence more unlikely than the reality you are attempting to explain. Saying your god just is, still leaves a much bigger question than you had to begin with.

Answer 5

I don't see how it could ever be possible for any human being to ever answer this question without some type of blind faith.

Be it physics they can't prove, or math that can't "make a universe appear". Equations are just human descriptions of what we have "faith" that reality actually looks like.

Answer 6

Right ON Cordell!

atheist

Answer 7

God can just exist, and pre-exist the universe the same way a manufacturer pre-exists it's product.

One of God's names means "the self-existent one."

Answer 8

Personally I think the universe is the closest thing to a "deity," it's just too uncaring for some to accept though.

Answer 9

because

a) the universe is defined by it's matter
b) matter and energy are finite and have a starting point
c) empty space is not known whether to be creatable or just there

Answer 10

I just ran outside and looked. You can relax. The universe is still there.

Answer 11

Because we can see, understand and manipulate the universe. God can't be seen, understood or manipulated, so god would be more powerful than the universe.