I'm being sued after using stud service... need vets and breeders help ASPA!!!?

Question

I was just called by christina's court (court tv) and informed that I'm being sued. The short end of a long story is this...
1. I was lead to believe unaltered dogs who don't have puppies will get breast cancer
2. I called several breeders and found someone willing to provide stud service
3. she told me she used horse de-wormer on her dogs and I had extra since I now de-worm my horses naturally
4. I'd never heard of horse de-wormer used on dogs and wasn't sure how she could determine the dosage, but I gave her what I had left and thought nothing more of it since she'd used it before.
5. She killed one of her dogs and made two others, a male and a pregnant female, sick with the de-wormer and got $3000 in vet bills
6. My dog had four puppies and she was allowed to chose pick of the litter
7. I realized she's a chain smoking, hobby breeder with a completely obese family and no sence of taking care of children let alone dogs and I freaked out about giving her a puppy

8. She said the puppy would be added to another breeder's breeding "program" and when I said no she said her daughter would keep the puppy and not breed her. She wanted the puppy WAY to early and wanted to bottle feed her, I said she could have the puppy at 8 weeks, but when the time came I still didn't feel she was ready and said 10-12 weeks.
9. She then got angry and we exchanged words via email and now she's blaming me for the $3000 vet bill and wants her puppy NOW
10. She has several chihuahuas that live in cages in her kitchen and aren't pets and I don't want this poor puppy added to her "stock!"

I now know while the reputable breeders denied me stud service, why breeders get mad at "hobby breeders" and I learned the breast cancer thing is a myth. I will never breed or encourage anyone to breed their pets unless they are show dogs and they know what they're doing, so before you lecture me... lesson learned!!!! I GET IT!!!

The puppies are beautiful and since they'd be CKC registered and I can't even get the papers now I've decided to keep them until they can be fixed and just adopt them to loving homes. My chihuahua has been an EXCELLENT mother and these puppies are playful, healthy, friendly, quiet dogs. They swim, use a litter box, love all people and animals and are basically perfect so I'm so glad we have them, but worried about this stupid, dramatic situation.

I do feel SO terrible for the dog that died and the poor dogs that got sick, but I wasn't the one who encouraged her to give the horse de-wormer, she asked for it and I was going to throw it away so I gave it to her. Now on Wednesday (yes, in 3 days) I have to go on a STUPID court TV show like the losers of this world and defend myself. I would feel more prepared if the "GOOD" breeders out there could help me prepare a statement saying it's best for puppies to be with their moms till they are 10-12 weeks old, that you would NEVER de-worm a pregnant dog especially not with horse wormer and that Darlene's Darlings (Missouri chiahuahua breeder) should be shut down!!! Any vets that can make a similar statement would help. If I have to go to court I'd like to counter sue, but I have nothing to ask for?

Look, I know I deserve all the things your saying, please know that I LOVE my pets and I have learned a lesson that I hope I can teach others... I promise I'll never do anything like this again... it's been a REAL eye opener

We did not have anything formally in writing, but there were emails exchanged

the only reason I've agreed to go on this trashy show is because if Darlene wins the show will give her the money and it won't cost me anything... I just DON"T want her to win and to be able to continue what she's doing!!!

I know this sounds like trashy drama, if you knew me you'd wonder what has gotten into me, but my dogs are my life and I want to fight this and if I have to look stupid on TV to keep others from "hobby breeding" I will!

Answer 1

did you pay her for the stud service? my uncle and his wife have three yorkies and occasionally breed them and sell the puppies. He told me that if he meets a family and doesnt consider them 'worthy' of one of his puppies he can refuse to sell them a dog. if you paid her for the service, is she still entitled to one of your puppies? or was that the payment, a free puppy?

it doesnt sound like you are responsible for her dogs getting sick. it's like you lending her rat food and then she lets her dogs eat it, are you responsible for her negligence?

good luck! this is just an awful situation!

Answer 2

I consider myself pretty logical. I'm still not certain what she is suing you for.

Because of the de-wormer situation?
Why did you give her a puppy?
Is she now suing you because she hasn't gotten the puppy?

From the de-wormer situation - If there was an issue about this being some type of prescription medication you might have a liability with the government, but not with an individual. No one forced her to give the de-wormer to the dogs. How do YOU know that she used the right dosage? Her fault not yours.

As far as a puppy is concerned, you have the right to sell, or not sell a puppy to anyone you choose, at whatever time you want to sell them.

That being said, why would you agree to go on TV?

Tell the TV program no. Tell the woman she can't have a puppy unless she pays for it.

Anything written to PROVE any agreements?

Answer 3

Look up in just about any book on raising dogs. If it mentions anything about puppy care it should mention what age for the puppies to be weaned. I don't think you can get a Vet/breeder to back you up from answers, even if you did, what proof would it lend you? Anyone can say they're a Vet or a breeder on here. Better to try calling vets, trainers or behavior specialists in your area that could at least sign something for you. I am wondering about your horses,as a experienced rider, I question your natural deworming. I am all for natural treatments, and use herbs with my own horse. But deworming is not something to miss with, we have had animal cruelty cases locally when the horses had been "naturally dewormed" and had health problems because they stayed so heavily infested. I encourage you, if you don't already, to have fecal tests done on your horses as a part of your health program to make sure you are really getting them all. If you do tests and have good results, I'd be very interested in how and what you use to deworm them. Good luck in court, try reporting her to local authorities from cruelty first, then she may not even be allowed to have dogs again! Maybe that could help you keep the puppy.

Answer 4

Wait... you've been contacted by Court TV? That's not a real court, ladies and gentlemen. Unless you've been served with a summons and complaint, you've not been sued.

But this sounds like a good opportunity for you to be on TV.

You may be responsible for giving this woman the pick of the litter, or the value thereof. There may be limits on this, however, if you don't have a written contract. How much does this type of dog go for?

No judge, even a TV judge, would hold you liable for the vet bills on her other animals, if you simply provided her some left over de-wormer, unless she can prove something is wrong with the de-wormer itself. Her incorrect use of the de-wormer is not your responsibility.

Answer 5

Take DP's advice - be calm on the show and everything and let her make a fool of herself.

1. She asked YOU for deworming medication. SHE gave the dogs the dosage. SHE probably made them sick.
2. I too suggest offering to pay a stud fee instead of having a pick of the litter, and reason that you don't want to see this repeated with any of your dog's darlings. It has taught you that breeding isn't to be toyed with, and you want these puppies fixed.

Most of what you have working for you is logic. Good luck, and I'm glad you learned your lesson, even if it was the hard way. Don't get worried about counter-suing just yet.

Answer 6

Well there is no way that she can blame you for the $3000 in vet bills for her making her own dogs sick, but it was completly stupid of you to let her use horse de-wormer on her dogs... hence the word "HORSE" it is not for dogs... that was a stupid mistake on your part and should of put up a red flag for you in the first place along with the many dogs she owns in cages. Now what you need to do is call the police and get a hold of animal control and let them know about this lady and all the dogs she owns. Since to me it sounds like this lady is running a little puppy mill, authorities need to know right away. There is a limit to how many animals one person can own, im not sure how many she owns but if its a lot (over 7) she could get in trouble. Also let animal control know that she used horse de-wormer on her dogs resulting in the death of one. If you get animal control involved in this and get her in trouble it will make you look good in court. To me it seems like you should be fine, I don't believe she should be able to sue you for her mistake. Oh and for a side note...dogs dont get "breast" cancer, but unaltered dogs are at a higher risk of getting cancer and other diseases and having puppies does not make them immune to it, only spaying your dog can lower the risks...

Answer 7

You can let the puuppy go at the same age you let the other puppies go. Whether its 8 weeks or 10-12 weeks. As the female's owner, they are legally YOUR puppies and you decide when they leave mom.

However, if you had an agreement with this lady about a pick of litter in exchange for stud services, then you owe her a pick of litter. You can send a certified letter and offer her a stud fee as opposed to POL, but its up to her if she wants to accept it or not.

Next time, be more selective about who you use for stud services.. or better yet, SPAY YOUR DOG! Having puppies does not prevent cancer.. spaying does.

I dont think she can sue you over the wormer. She said she knew what she was doing, you only gave her the extra wormer you had. YOU did not tell her to give it to her!

Answer 8

This is just so sad on so many levels.

"CKC Registered"? Oh, this just gets better and better. Don't bother "CKC Registering" them - the Continental Kennel Club is a scam registry that would register a goat as a Great Dane if you paid them enough money.

Get your dog spayed - if you're accusing this woman of being a hobby breeder, and yet you're turning out puppies who are "CKC Registered" (laugh) and you didn't even bother to research the stud and the breeder BEFORE the breeding, you're no better than she is.

Are you liable for the vet bills as a result of the idiot's misuse of ivermectin? Probably not, unless the ivermectin you gave her was expired and you knew it. Are you legally held to giving her a puppy? If you have a written contract that states that, then unfortunately yes, you are.

However, unless the contract explicitly states that the puppy is to be unaltered, I would see about getting the puppy spayed/neutered before giving it to the idiot.

Get copies of ALL emails exchanged, because it's written communication and may be construed as a written agreement.


Regarding ivermectin:

http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=518&S=1&SourceID=52

Concerns and Cautions

Ivermectin use in pregnancy and lactation is not felt to be a problem.

Use of oral/injectable ivermectin in small animals for anything other than heartworm prevention is considered off-label use and is not approved by the FDA.

While we recognize that it is possible to buy ivermectin (Ivomec®) through some catalogs, we strongly discourage this practice given the precise doses used for small animals and the potential for serious side effects if the product is incorrectly used.

Answer 9

Wait a second here... There is too much going on...

What kind of horsewormer did you provide her with ??
Panacur??? Panacur or Fenbendazole is safe to be used in pregnant animals of all species.. According to the vet and other sources.. I was reading the Panacur information a few years ago.. They gave a pregnant tiger like 200 times ( I think ... it was 200.. Might have been more ) the recommended dosage. There was no problems with the tiger mom, the kittens?? were all fine.. There were NO problems at all.. NONE.

She willing took what she knew to be horse wormer and SHE gave it to her dogs.. Knowing that you are not a vet.. She took this upon herself to do.. It is no different than if she went to the Farm supply and bought it herself.

My vet sells me Panacur for my dogs. We have been giving it to them.. OMG .. since 1994... maybe 1992... I have given it to old dogs, puppies, pregnant females and everyone in between.. Now I weigh the dogs and I dose according to weight.. I would never worm a dog that was sick or anything else.. But we have Never ( knock on wood ) ever had a dog get sick or have a problem or anything else giving them the Panacur.. The wormer did NOT kill her dogs, nor did it make them sick.. UNLESS MAYBE she over dosed them???

Do you have a written contract saying that you ahve to give her pick puppy from the litter?
You really have no control over what she does with a puppy that you owe her for the breeding.. Unless you were to have this in a written stud contract before breeding.

Your litter, your rules.. if you want to keep them til they are 8 10 12 or 24 weeks of age.. That is your rule, your dogs, the way you raise them.

Sorry.. I have to flip back and forth to really read your entire post.. It's bugging the heck out of me :)

Why are you assuming that your puppies cannot be CKC registered?? Are her dogs registered? Your dog is registered?? Dogs that are of purebred dogs, and are both registered.. You as the owner of the *****, you must provide papers on the puppies.. You go to the CKC.. You contact the Registration Department.. You contact Leila Bahorie.. And you talk to her.. You tell her that this breeder is withholding her signature on the litter registration.
She cannot breed her dog to your dog, and withhold her signature.. The CKC can and will over ride, and will sign the registration papers and will give you registration papers for your litter.... They are likely to have you and her into the office and discuss the matter and try to come to a happy ending.. But they will over ride.. Purebred, dogs ... papers go with them.. She cannot withhold her signature! Remember that!

If I have learned ANYTHING from watching court tv.. It's Answer ONLY what is asked of you.. Don't try and offer more information, don't try and trash her, let her do that to herself.

You believe that puppies should be with their mom at least 12 weeks .. And when you saw the cages in the kitchen, you knew that you were right in your decision to keep the puppies til they were 12 weeks of age.

What you are willing to do .. is to pay her the stud fee, which in the dog world is basically the price of one puppy.. You find out what she charges for a puppy, and that's what you are willing to pay her.. Nothing more.. Then you keep ALL the puppies.. You get them registered, and when they are old enough you get them spayed/neutered and you get your female spayed, and you have learned a huge and nasty lesson!

Just another thought.. Get ALL the puppies spayed/ neutered NOW.. She won't want a dog that isn't intact.. She would rather take payement for the stud fee... She can't make you breed your female again to get her an intact puppy.. This woman would rather have the cash..

Answer 10

I would report animal abuse she killed the dog and made them sick call the aspca and report what happen you are not the one that fed it to the dogs you did not kill the dog and i think you would be stupid to give her a puppy all it will become is another caged dog does she have a breeders licence or kennel licence depending on where you are? you can get her for that toolook into it but i would really calkl the aspca because that is animal abuse what she did if there is nothing in writing saying she can have the puppy you do not have to give it to her no proof of it your word against hers i would not give it to her chrge her 3000 dollars

Answer 11

WOW, BIG LESSON TO LEARN HERE.. Obviously if your being sued you have no choice than to go to court, if you promised something you should deliver.. Otherwise you should have done MORE research on this breeder before using her..
as far as the dewormer, that should be thrown out, you gave her the medication, but you did not administer it.. Sounds like she is a bad breeder all the way around neglectful in alot of aspects.. All you can do is plea your side of the case and see how it goes.

But this does not clear you.. You should have done more research before breeding, about the breeder and if you agreed to something, you should follow through. You should have been more selective..

The other reputable breeders told you NO for a reason.. You just obviously looked for the first yes and used them.. Thats sad..