Why do christians believe they know the OT better than the jews?

Question

This was the bible for a very long time before anyone heard of jesus. It was their "truth", they studied and interpreted it endlessly.

Along comes jesus and he and a very few followers say, "this is the messiah. He is the son of god and we must follow him for soon there will be an apacolypse".

The jews who found jesus so unimpressive no one bothered to even write about him for 65 years or so (Josephus) say "uh, no I don't think so, jesus who? Never heard of him". Oh you mean the blasphemer, criminal who died on the cross? You people are nuts that's not the messiah'.

So then the christians go to the gentile polytheists and say " this is our new and improved god, you should follow him here are some stories I was told by the friend of a friend of my neighbours wifes cousin.

And the Romans who know no better and very little of the OT say "well he is sort of like the best of all of our gods rolled into one warm fuzzy package so whatever, whats one more god?

mrscjr- I don't think so, while I am an atheist, I find the mythology fascinating, I have studied it quite a bit. Here are a few of the lectures i have listened to lately

http://www.teach12.com/ttcx/coursedesclong2.aspxcid=643&id=643&pc=Religion

http://www.teach12.com/ttcx/coursedesclong2.aspx?cid=653&id=653&pc=Religion

http://www.teach12.com/ttcx/coursedesclong2.aspx?cid=6240&id=6240&pc=Religion


And here is the views of most jews towards jesus

http://judaism.about.com/od/beliefs/a/jesus.htm

SDW, I have seen those dates but have never seen them anywhere but a christian site. Could you provide some non christian sites that have verified it? The oldest fragment they have is from 125-150 C.E from the book of John. Other than that it seems to be assumptions because it was not mentioned. If they were written 20 years after it wouldn't really be big news anymore. I am unsure on the dates, and have heard and read many others, but you are not sure either.

emesshalom-I actually do know this but I do not think most christians do, so I wanted to put it in terms most would understand.

SDW- other than the epistles. I was talkiing NT canon.

Answer 1

Christians know the Old Testament better than Jews because the Old Testament is NOT part of Jewish scriptures. The Old Testament is exclusively a Christian document created long after the New Testament was written and canonized. The Old Testament is a purposely false and misleading translation/interpretation of the Tanach. The Old Testament was created, after the fact, to support and defend Christian demonization of Judaism.

The Tanach is part of the Torah, the authoritative scripture of Judaism. The Tanach includes the Chumash [the 5 Books of Moshe Rabbeneu], the Neviim [the Prophets] and the Kesuvim [the Writings]. The Tanach is only authoritative in the original language in which it was written [Hebrew and Aramaic]. While there are excellent translations of the Tanach into English Like the 'Living Torah' by R' Ayrel Kaplan and the Tanach by ArtScroll, none of these are authoritative for matters of interpretation and implementation of Torah Law.
The other parts of the Torah are the Talmud and the post Talmudic Responsa.

Answer 2

Ok, I don't know how to respond to your soliloquy so I'll just answer your question. I WISH it was the case that "christians believe they know the OT better than the jews". My experience is most Christians don't even consider the OT worth knowing (except some of them with the first couple chapters for some reason). It's really a travesty. I never began to understand the "Old Testament" until I began to listen to what the rabbis had to say. Then it's like light bulbs going on all over the place. "Oh, THAT's what that means..." It's too bad because there's an awful lot of good stuff in there, especially about justice.

Peace to you.

Answer 3

One of the arguments that prompted the Protestant Reformation right there.

The Hebrew canon of the Old Testament didn't include the books that today we call the Apocrypha; but the Catholic Bible, based on the Septuagint translation of the OT, had these books. The Reformers thought that the Hebrews had more right to say which books were God-inspired than the Pope and the Catholic Church did. When they split from Catholicism, they took these books out of the Bible--the Hebrews knew best, in their opinion.

Today, Christians see many of the prophecies in the OT fulfilled through Jesus Christ, while the Jews do not believe that he was the Messiah. That's where the conflict came in. Important to note, however, that for the first several years of its history the church was almost exclusively converts from Judaism that did believe that Christ fulfilled these prophecies.

Our research to date also dates the entire New Testament, save the 5 books written by John, before the fall of Jerusalem in AD 70.

Answer 4

"At this time there was a wise man called Jesus, and his conduct was good, and he was known to be virtuous. Many people among the Jews and the other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified, and to die. But those who had become his disciples did not abandon his discipleship. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion, and that he was alive. Accordingly, he was perhaps the Messiah, concerning whom the prophets have reported wonders. And the tribe of the Christians, so named after him, has not disappeared to this day" (Antiquities 20:200). Flavius Josephus, AD 37-100

you have to realize that there is and was more than just one sect of jews. every writer of the bible was born into a jewish family, with the possible exception of st luke, and obviously, they all recognized Jesus as the prophesied Messiah. those that believed on Him became known as christians. those that didn't remained to be known as jews.

i don't claim to know the tanach any better than the jews do. because i can freely admit this to myself, and to others, i often study the midrash, just as a way to gain new perspective. i do, however, believe that Jesus was prophesied many many times (109 times, if i'm correct) in the old testament, and that His arrival fulfilled said prophecies.

Answer 5

Because the God of Moses sent down Jesus after the Rabbi's changed the Torah.

Answer 6

If I'm not mistaken, in the OT it's hinted at and prophesized about the coming of Jesus. So, take that for what it's worth

Answer 7

Only the true Christians know the OT better then the Jews. Remember, their are a lot of people that say that they are Christians, but are really pagans..

Answer 8

Christians barely read the old testament anyways, the first thing they read is the new testament

Answer 9

What does your question have to do with what you wrote, and why do you believe you know what "all" Christians think?

Your rant shows that you are misinformed about the beginning of the Christian faith.

Answer 10

You seem to forget to mention that Jesus used the very scriptures of the Torah and Talmud..the prophecies of the messiah to prove to the Jewish leadership...the Sanhedrin, that He is the messiah. He made it very clear to them and He backed up His statements with many great signs and miracles...that the very same Jewish leadership never denied, but instead claimed the miracles were accomplished by demonic power.

(*Edit: in case it wasn't clear...the Old Testament was known by Jesus Christ...He was a Jew, and He knew the scripture better than even the Jewish leaders who were the keepers of the Law. He used the Law they were supposed to live by to show them how much they needed a Savior...how sinful they were...they hated Him because He brought their sins to light by quoting the scripture back at them, and they didn't find Him "unimpressive," they were astounded by Him, and found Him to be dangerous, and a detriment to their ability to keep power.)

If someone believes that such acts of love: feeding thousands upon thousands of hungry people, healing the blind, deaf, mute, lame, leprous, and various other illnesses along with resurrecting the dead are acts of a demon then it is a very flawed opinion.

The people who witnessed Christ's teaching learned by hearing Him personally...Faith comes by hearing the word of God. Spoken word. Preaching.

Romans 10:13-18

13 for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." 14 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15 And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!" 16 But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our message?" 17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ. 18 But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did: "Their voice has gone out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world."

In the beginning of the early church it is entirely understandable that there was no written account, because the people who witnessed the events of Jesus Christ were still living. The witnesses could be asked whether or not Christ did what the Apostles say He did. The Jewish leadership was still in power and still actively against the Apostles after Jesus ascended to heaven, and levelled the same charges against the Apostles when the Apostles did many great signs and miracles...healing, resurrecting the dead...and all in Jesus Christ's name, by His power. Many witnesses of the events were still living during the "Acts" of the Apostles.

It is entirely logical that there was no need for the written record until the witnesses died out or the audience grew so large that the Apostles and all the disciples were not able to minister to all the churches throughout the world as effectively without relying on the written word as their foundation for teaching.

The earliest written documents found of the New Testament were dated (correction) "at the least" 70 A.D. (Jesus died and was resurrected at 33 years old...approx 33 A.D.) still within 37 years of Christ's crucifiction.

*Edit: even using your dates for the earliest document found 125-150 C.E which I have seen on some websites, the same still applies.

The persecution of the Christians which began and extended beyond this time span...(Nero's persecution of Christians in 64 A.D. all the way to the reign of Marcus Aurelius through 180 A.D. and beyond until 312 A.D. with Constantine's victory)... also provides logical incentive that if Christians were more often in hiding, since speaking openly would only lead to a death in a lion's stomach, spreading the word of God in a written form would be a logical progression.

The Bible records the prophecy of, and the life and time of Jesus Christ and His teachings. The Holy Spirit of God within the authors of the Bible gave them the ability to detail the events and organize them in such a way that they would never be forgotten, and could be shared with all the world for all time which makes perfect sense considering John 3:16

3:16
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

It only makes sense that this hope of salvation offered to the entire world by God would be something to write down...and now it is 2000 years later and the word of God is still here...the number one published book of all time and gaining faithful followers daily.


It has nothing to do with making a "new religion"...if it did, none of the Apostles would have willingly died to keep their faith in Christ. They were told to renounce Christ and promise to stop teaching His word in order to be released and appease their Roman rulers. They could have gained riches and glory for themselves by subjecting the people, but instead, they sold all they owned, giving what they had to the poor, they allowed themselves to be thrown in prison, they visited with the sick and the "untouchables" of society, and wandered the land from town to town, healing and loving all who came into contact with them, living by working with their given skills daily to feed themselves and sharing the little they had to survive with their brothers and sisters in Christ. They were persecuted and imprisoned, tortured, and executed for their faith in Jesus and they died...not as a "suicide bomber" who kills for their idea of god, but rather the Apostles and many many others, disciples, teachers...normal Christians were "martyred," accepting execution rather than reject their faith in Jesus who they know to be the Way the Truth and the Life. The One True God.

Take Care and God Bless!