I'm having a crisis of faith, can you help?

Question

I originally came to faith through Josh McDowell's "Evidence that Demands a Verdict." I had depression at the time (suicidal...) and needed to believe. The book states that there are more than 24,000 manuscripts and pieces of manuscripts of the New Testament in existance today. It then compares this to the Illiad (if memory serves...) with something like 640 manuscripts. That sounds good but breaking it down to reality... The New Testament isn't 1 book... its 23... and pieces of manuscripts? What constitutes a piece of a manuscript? A page? The entire Christian religion hinges on the reliability of scripture. Every apologetic argument uses the presumption that what happened in the New Testament really happened. I can no longer be 100% certain.

I will always be grateful to the Christian religion for helping me stabilize emotionally and mentally. I have to be honest with myself though.

And I am done staring into the abyss.

The abyss bit was a reference to the depression. Think the saying goes something like "Take care you don't stare into the abyss for too long... the abyss stares back into you." Don't recall where it's from though...

Katiefish...
That was really rather insulting.

Crazypelo...

That's more what I needed. I was aware of the Dead Sea Scrolls.

Hmm.. if you make New Testaments from the manuscripts by taping them up, how many New Testaments would you have? Hope that question is clear... All this answers though is whether or not the New Testament was tampered with in the Dark Ages.

Oh another question... How do we know the writers weren't just sincerely deluded? I know of C.S. Lewis' trilemma but that requires a presumption that the Gospels recorded history accurately. How can I know that with any amount of certainty?

The book you mentioned is worth looking into. I'm the kind of guy that was studying biblical greek at 15... That was a long time ago though and I certainly don't know as much as you of course.

Answer 1

A manuscript is a copy of an autograph (the original). I remember learning the same thing about the manuscripts in Bible College. Less than two years ago, here in Dallas, they had some manuscripts from the Dead Sea Scrolls and other Biblical manuscripts. It isn't in one big massive book of manuscripts, it is a bunch of small parts that make the big part. However, it is through these 24,000 manuscripts, some of them the same, that we get our Bible in the first place. The manuscripts that are the same, some older and some newer, the only difference in them is often one or two words or a spelling error - it is never a difference of theology. That always remained the same. Anyway, I took four semsters of Biblical Greek while in college and there is one book dedicated to the differences in these manuscripts. It is called "The New Linguistic and Exegetical key to the Greek New Testament" by Cleon Rogers. I know the title is huge but it deals with the differences in manuscripts and helps one to understand the acual meaning of the text. Of course, you have to know a little biblical greek, but it is extremely helpful because it has the different manuscripts, what they say and what period they are from. I know it is technical, but I hope it helps:-)

Answer 2

You are currently in the state of "overflow of scripture". STOP. The weirdest thing is - the more you know, the more you wanna know. The more you understand, the more baffled you become. You are trying to cram that "abyss" into that little finite brain of yours.

BTW, NOBODY is 100% certain. We have here the Theological Virtues - Faith, Hope and Charity which are fed thru the Cardinal Virtues - Prudence, Justice, Fortitude and Temperance . God allows those doubts (opportunities) to grant you an increase in the said virtues and merit when you seek Him unceasingly. Not just by reading manuscripts / apologetics but by living your life in humble trust in God, the very same Christian God that stabilized you emotionally and mentally.
No one can give to you what the Risen Lord, Jesus Christ, can give - Peace and sobriety in your soul.
God Bless us all!

Answer 3

I admire the work you've done, the studying, the origin exploring, etc. It helps knowing there is tangible evidence of the times when Christ lived. I'm not sure what you mean by staring into the abyss, however. I find God quite exciting and fulfilling. I'm wondering if you've found your purpose. Does it matter to you? Perhaps it does since your question states that you are having a crisis of faith - yet you seem so convicted in your own answer.

While you were suicidal and you said that Christianity helped you through that, now your head's screwed on right, how can you turn your back on the very thing that saved you? Do you not think that without Christ in your life, you won't journey down that path again? You're playing God as a God of convenience instead of being loyal to Him. How would you like it if He treated you that way?

I am anguished by anyone whom decides that they've outgrown the very thing that they need to strive for in their lives. I think of how brash, how conceited, how much you must think of yourself that you no longer need Him. Perhaps you didn't believe in the first place. Perhaps it was just some "gummy bear" existance - like I said "god of convenience" that helped you through your crisis.

Hmmm - good luck with the back-turning bit. I sure hope you change your mind and begin living your life for Him in His service. It's so worth it.

katiefish <><

Answer 4

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/bibleorg.html

New Testament - In considering the New Testament we have tens of thousands of manuscripts of the New Testament in part or in whole, dating from the second century A.D. to the late fifteenth century, when the printing press was invented. These manuscripts have been found in Egypt, Palestine, Syria, Turkey, Greece, and Italy, making collusion unlikely. The oldest manuscript, the John Rylands manuscript, has been dated to 125 A.D. and was found in Egypt, some distance from where the New Testament was originally composed in Asia Minor). Many early Christian papyri, discovered in 1935, have been dated to 150 A.D., and include the four gospels. The Papyrus Bodmer II, discovered in 1956, has been dated to 200 A.D., and contains 14 chapters and portions of the last seven chapters of the gospel of John. The Chester Beatty biblical papyri, discovered in 1931, has been dated to 200-250 A.D. and contains the Gospels, Acts, Paul's Epistles, and Revelation. The number of manuscripts is extensive compared to other ancient historical writings, such as Caesar's "Gallic Wars" (10 Greek manuscripts, the earliest 950 years after the original), the "Annals" of Tacitus (2 manuscripts, the earliest 950 years after the original), Livy (20 manuscripts, the earliest 350 years after the original), and Plato (7 manuscripts).

Thousands of early Christian writings and lexionaries (first and second century) cite verses from the New Testament. In fact, it is nearly possible to put together the entire New Testament just from early Christian writings. For example, the Epistle of Clement to the Corinthians (dated 95 A.D.) cites verses from the Gospels, Acts, Romans, 1 Corinthians, Ephesians, Titus, Hebrews, and 1 Peter. The letters of Ignatius (dated 115 A.D.) were written to several churches in Asia Minor and cites verses from Matthew, John, Romans, 1 & 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, 1 & 2 Timothy and Titus. These letters indicate that the entire New Testament was written in the first century A.D. In addition, there is internal evidence for a first century date for the writing of the New Testament. The book of Acts ends abruptly with Paul in prison, awaiting trial (Acts 28:30-31 (1)). It is likely that Luke wrote Acts during this time, before Paul finally appeared before Nero. This would be about 62-63 A.D., meaning that Acts and Luke were written within thirty years of ministry and death of Jesus. Another internal evidence is that there is no mention of the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. Although Matthew, Mark and Luke record Jesus' prophecy that the temple and city would be destroyed within that generation (Matthew 24:1-2 (2),Mark 13:1-2 (3), Luke 21:5-9,20-24,32(4)), no New Testament book refers to this event as having happened. If they had been written after 70 A.D., it is likely that letters written after 70 A.D. would have mentioned the fulfillment of Jesus' prophecy. As stated by Nelson Glueck, former president of the Jewish Theological Seminary in the Hebrew Union College in Cincinnati, and renowned Jewish archaeologist, "In my opinion, every book of the New Testament was written between the forties and eighties of the first century A.D."

With all of the massive manuscript evidence you would think there would be massive discrepancies - just the opposite is true. New Testament manuscripts agree in 99.5% (5) of the text (compared to only 95% for the Iliad). Most of the discrepancies are in spelling and word order. A few words have been changed or added. There are two passages that are disputed but no discrepancy is of any doctrinal significance (i.e., none would alter basic Christian doctrine). Most Bibles include the options as footnotes when there are discrepancies. How could there be such accuracy over a period of 1,400 years of copying? Two reasons: The scribes that did the copying had meticulous methods for checking their copies for errors. 2) The Holy Spirit made sure we would have an accurate copy of God's word so we would not be deceived. The Mormons, theological liberals as well as other cults and false religions such as Islam that claim the Bible has been tampered with are completely proven false by the extensive, historical manuscript evidence.

Answer 5

Nice to hear you found rest from your depression and a source of help through Christ. It is not wrong to question.
I'm not sure all that is in the Bible is exact truth. Some churches insist that the Bible is absolute truth and nothing outside the bible should be excepted.
My best advice is to study the words of Jesus and search for their higher meaning in your life for guidance.
It does not matter if anything in the Bible is true. What matters is your relationship with God. Excepting Christ in your life and his words was a step in the right direction. Your heart will tell you that if you listen to it. Don't let doubts take away what you have received. There are many who would take it. Build on your rock foundation and don't look back. Better to be on Rock than sand. You don't have to be 100 percent certain.
Seek first the Kingdom of God and His Righteousness and all else will be added unto you.
Rev. TomCat

Answer 6

hi, Please evaluate Jesus' words in John 12:31 and John 14:30. Then ask your self the way it ties in with a million John 5:19. Why try this type of fantastic type of nevertheless have self belief that a loving and being concerned God is ruling the earth at present whilst the Scriptures teach in yet differently? type regards, Günter

Answer 7

Some one had to have lived or seen what was written on those manuscripts, or they wouldn't have wrote them right. There are 66 books in the Bible written by men who walked and talked with God and Jesus. Translated from Greek. I thnk you need to stare alittle more and read the Bible

Answer 8

Maybe you have book knowledge ofGod but have not reached a true personal relatinship with Him, also sound like the enemy is trying to steal your joy ,or maybe the parable of the seeds and the soils. Try some steadfast prayer and fasting and ask God to reveal Himself to you, He will, and if you know the bible at all you know it says God will, if you believe when you ask

Answer 9

I've listened to Josh talk! He's an amazing guy. honestly, you need to go find someone tangible for you to talk to. Not just some one online, but I will try to help.

You don't have to pick apart all of those facts to determine the truth. If you wan to see the truth. Pray to God, honestly, seriously, ask him to open your eyes. Tell Him you need help. Read the word. That will help you more than anything I can ever say. I can't do it for you, otherwise I would. This is something you must see for yourself.

I'm praying.

Answer 10

Well, the reason there istn much proof is simple...there is no real proof.

People are happy to blindly believe something written in a book 2000 years ago, before anyone was allowed to talk about the earth orbitting the sun, because doing so would be agaisnt (the christian) god.

Be rational man, that doubt that you have is simply your rational side saying "this is all bullcrap."