Self defense weapon ?

Question

9mm or .45 and why ?

Answer 1

Being fortunate to have a sizeable collection, including several varieties of both 9mm and .45acp, the one I choose for regular daily duty is the nine, specifically the Browning Hi Power.

Like boker says, the 9 has been misaligned as a man-stopper. The truth is, more militaries and police world wide have counted on the 9mm parabellum for a century than any other caliber and it has performed well.

It has, given the correct load and projectile, plenty enough power to do the job and to do it with either more volume or smaller frame size and certainly with more control and easier followup.

One of the reasons for my choice is my wife. While she is capable of shooting the big .45 effectively, she is a much better marksman with a 9mm and I want her, should the situation ever arise, to have every confidence and advantage with my weapon.

Answer 2

http://www.greent.com/40Page/ammo/9/9mm-advoc.htm so it is close in effectiveness

People miss in self defense situations more often than they hit. If you read about the use of pistols you will find that people empty their guns and never hit their target. There are plenty of cases where cops have emptied their magazines and missed every shot. So practice is important and unless you reload you can only afford to practice in 9.

Next capacity is important. It is a growing trend that crime is done in groups so you will probably be engaging multiple targets. Also you will probably be engaging your targets at night. So you will be more likely to miss. Some people will say if you can't get it done in six then you can't get it done. I say if you can't get it done with six it is a good thing you have 15. Nine millimeters have higher capacities.

Now that you realize you will be taking multiple shots controllability is important. 9mms are more controllable. Keep this in mind when I move to my next point.

You want something you can and will carry. No matter how small the 45 you can find a smaller 9 with the same or larger capacity and the nine is going to be lighter and more controllable. Are you going to completely change your wardrobe if you buy a gun? probably not. A gun at home because it is too big or heavy is not effective. 511 vests look goofy, are hot, and scream "SHOOT ME FIRST".

So the 9 is
comparable in effectiveness
cheaper
more controllable
more likely to be carried
and higher capacity.

as an aside I have seen SOOO many 1911's jam it is not even funny. You will hear people say a 1911 is a thing of beauty.... when it works.
You know if you want a real manstopper go with a 500 sw. It is more effective than the 45 and more dependable. By the way that is a joke. The point is that the 45 may be a marginally more effective one shot to the chest cartridge. That is why special forces carry it. Because their main job is to kill. The rest of us have to go in public and can't carry 5 spare magazines. We won't wear our weapons in holsters designed to dissipate the weight over several points at a lower center of gravity. We have to choose our holsters as a trade off between concealibility and accessibility. The HK socom is a big gun that will help control recoil, but is virtually impossible to carry concealed except for maybe in northern alaska. I really don't understand the discussion. The trade offs you make just to get 95/1000 of an inch increase in diameter seems too great.
Boker does not make as much noise as the other guys and doesn't pretend to be an expert. After reading his answers for a while I trust his answers more than anyone's.

Answer 3

while i (thank heavens) have never had to test the theorys i do buy into the belief that "size really doesn't matter. Accuracy does." lots of time at the range is the only thing that will save you from unknown.
i wonder why everyone assumes that every thug that assaults some one is going to be drugged up and able to take a bullet and still keep coming? the vast majority of the time a single round from any gun will stop a would be murderer.even the lowly .22 LR will do the job most of the time.
i would suggest a .38 special because of ease of concealment.of course a .38 is also a 9 mm.so is the .380 auto,and the .357 is too. to many people have trapped them selves into a box for self defence calibers. 9mm,.45,and the .40 s&w are only the most popular because the writer in guns and ammo magazine likes them.try different guns until you find the one that is right for you

Answer 4

The truth is, with the right bullet configuration, either one will do the job if you do yours. Personally, I go with a .45. I don't need the extra ammo capacity of a 9mm, (if you need more than one or two, you probably shouldn't be carrying a gun) and there are plenty of compact, reliable .45s out there that you can feed JHP ammo all day without issue. Since the 9mm's advantages don't appeal to me, and a .45 DOES hit harder than a 9mm, The choice for me is simple. But consider your own needs, get all the information you can from a reliable source, and above all practice, practice, practice! No bullet does damage to a target that it doesn't hit.

Answer 5

Whichever one is in my hand.

The 9mm is cheaper and I can afford to practice a lot with it. Because of that I can shoot very quickly and accurately and still have time to hit steel chickens at 50 yards for fun and practice. Recoil is less, ammo capacity is more, bullet effectiveness between jhp 9mm and jhp .45 is very minimal. Every little bit helps but I have twice as many. Like Uncle Frosty said I too have seen plenty of 1911 clones jam. But that is a gun type fault and not a caliber problem.

Sometimes you just need to keep their heads down while you maneuver, extra rounds give you that option. No bullet works without proper shot placement and the common pistol bullets are all very similar in energy.

Answer 6

If we are talking home defence screw the pistol get a 12 gauge with the shortest possible barrel with either 00 buck or slugs or possibly a combination of the two just a thought

But to answer your question with the properly selected ammo 9mm will work but you are going to have to do your home work buying the highest quality ammo possible Hydra-shok talons or gold dots (look at the number of one shot stops with that piticular ammo and which ever one has the highest % is the one you go with)

If you want to save your self alot of reading just get a .45 and put FMJ 230gr bullets in THIS IS NOT THE BEST CONFIGURATION but it will get you 80% of the way

If you get a 9mm you are going to have to get hollow points this is a must Now here is the problem not all hollow points will expand all the time even the best will not expand all the time and if a 9mm doesn't expand its almost worthless some bad guys have been shot 11 times with 9mm hollow points (not one expanded) and they were discharged form the hospital THE NEXT DAY
So choose you ammo carefully and as a rule of thumb the faster it goes the better chance it will have of expanding so no 147gr use 124-135gr+p or +p+ but if it expands too much it will stop before it can reach a vital organ so to make a long story short get the fastest expanding ammo with 20-25 inches of penatration

the 45 however goes so slow that its chances of expanding are not very high but when it does expand it get huge and even if it doesn't its big enough that it isn't worthless.

if you get a 9mm plan on shooting twice if you get a 45 your probably only going to have to shoot once but if all comes down to shot placement because all pistol rounds are under powered

Answer 7

That very question has been the subject of heated debate for decades.

Yes the 9mmP will kill someone deader than charity, but it is not a dependable manstopper. And manstopping is much more important than being a mankiller. Wouldn't it be rather embarassing to get killed or severely injured by a person into whom you had just places several fatal shot?

The 9 mmP relies upon velocity and bullet design for stopping power. The FMJ is notorious for zipping through people without knocking them out of the fight. Only with Hollow-point and frangible ammunition dose the stopping power of the 9 mmP increase to acceptable levels. If velocity falls below 100 fps, whether from distance or passing through cover, the 9 mmP JHP's just won't expand.

On the other hand, the .45 ACP exits the barrel at a size very similar to what an expanded 9 mmP bullet hopes to achieve. Despite the ridiculous claims of some that the .45 ACP 230 gr. FMJ is an effective fight-stopper 19 times out of 20, the .45 ACP truly IS a great fight stopper. If you HAVE to use FMJ as carry ammo, the .45 ACP has a huge advantage over the 9 mmP.

The .45 ACP is less prone to over penetration because it operates at a lower velocity, and some of the best bullet designs available are made in .45 caliber. My preferred loads are CCI's 200 gr. Lawman JHP (the famous Flying Ashtray, which some people credit with a 90%+ one shot stopping record), and Federal's Premium 230 Hydro-Shok (the only .45 ACP load that expands regardless of the velocity).

Another advantage of the .45 ACP is the intimidation factor. Granted even a .22 looks like a tunnel's mouth when you look down the barrel, but the gaping maw of a .45 has a tendency to remind evil-doers of important business elsewhere.

An advantage for the 9 mmP is that it is chambered in some fine compact designs, that are just too light for comfort with a .45.

When it comes to bulls-eye accuracy, the .45 ACP has a much better reputation than the 9 mmP. I honestly can't say if that reputation is deserved, but I can say that I don't know of any accuracy record in which the 9 mmP has beaten the .45.

What it really comes down to is you, your preferences and your needs. If you want a compact and concealable handgun, the 9 mmP might be your best choice. If you want a service size pistol (Colt Officers' ACP size or larger), I think the .45 would be a better choice, even though most 9 mmP service pistols have a higher ammo capacity.

Handle and shoot as many different handguns in each caliber that you can. Then pick the one that feels best to you.

Of course the best solution is clearly stated in Taffin's Dictum: Buy them both.

Then you can carry the one that fits the day's needs. Over the years, I've owned both 9 mmP and .45 ACP pistols. I still have the .45, so I guess that tells you which I prefer.

Doc

Answer 8

The unknowing masses will disagree with me, but a 9mm using quality JHP ammo will stop ANY person, and you have a smaller, lighter, more concealable weapon than a 45. Yes the 45acp is a tried and true caliber, there's nothing wrong at all with 45acp, it will get the job done, but so will the 9mm, and it will do it in a smaller package. The folks who say 9mm won't stop a bad guy simply buy into the hollywood stereotype. Maybe they've never heard of 115gr JHP corbons, or gold dots, or talons, perhaps the 210gr ball ammo the 1911 was designed to use hits a bit harder, but it's still fmj, it will NOT expand, and anyone who shoots 1911's enough to know what they're doing, knows a 1911 will NOT reliably cycle jhp ammo.Of course if you're talking about using a 45acp pistol that's not a 1911 style, and it will reliably use jhp ammo, then you have the perfect weapon, except for size, capacity and concealability. So you see, the 9mm has it all, with the right ammo, to be a very effective defensive pistol, millions of servicemen worldwide for decades can't be wrong.

Answer 9

If I had to choose between a 9mm and a .45 I would take the .45 because it has better stopping power, but since I don't have to make that choice I'll keep my 10mm Glocks.
The 10mm has about double the power of a .45 and depending on what bullets you use will either penetrate far better or blow a bigger hole in something than a .45 ever will.
If you have to shoot someone to defend yourself you should use a gun with enough power to not only kill them, but to knock them back hard enough so they can't shoot back.
Glocks are the most dependable pistols ever, and with 10mm power anyone who tries something stupid around me has made a bad mistake, maybe his last mistake...

Answer 10

I carry a Glock 36, single stack 45acp loaded with Speer Gold Dot or Remington Golden Saber ammo depending on how badly I want to mess up a bad guy's internals.

The 45 was developed to combat the problems that the Army were having with (I belive) Philipinos, whom were high. The standard 38 caliber bullet was not effective at stopping the people who were high, so they deployed the 45, which literally tore their limbs off and through the shear devastation of the bullet, incapacitated the assailant.

Now, knowing that the 38 is the same caliber as a 9mm and knowing that the 45acp was developed with the mindset of stopping someone cold, do you really want to put your life in the hand of a 9mm?

The issue is, do you want a slow and heavy round or light and fast? There have been NUMEROUS tests that show that fast/light bullets do not penetrate through obstacles as easily and they get deflected easier than the slow/heavy bullets. That includes a recent test I did when shooting through numerous windshields. The top performer was actually a 40S&W Hornady Tap load through a Glock 27, which I may start carrying soon. It penetrated more windshields than both the 9mm and 45acp loads in short barreled pistols.

The 40 seems to be the best all around bullet and offers the same benefit of a 9mm in that you can carry more ammo in a mag than the big fat 45acp.

Good luck with your purchase and contact me if you'd like any help on picking out a firearm. My top recommendations are the ones I've researched and purchased:
Glock 36 - 45acp
Glock 27 40S&W
S&W 342PD -5 shot 38spl (pocket gun for my suits)
CZ SP01 - 9mm large frame
Numerous Colt 1911's - 45acp large frame
HK USP Tactical 45 large frame