Why do protestants seem to disagree with Catholics by?

Question

quoteing the new testement that the early church put together.

Please prove that there were other Christians before the reformation, if so where were they. The was only one church prior to the reformation.

Please tell me why Martin Luther (a crazy Hitler figure) took books and verses out of the original bible (including the Old Testement books of Daniel and Ester) that the early christians compiled.

You use a book that is incomplete, it isint the same one the early christians used or had after 400ad, there are parts missing.

Would you be willing to explore your faith in more detail to really understand it. You can say that Mary, Puratory, Confession are not in your bible but they are, the verses are all there.

You would say I take them out of context but how can you have them in context when you dont have the original bible that early believers have, or that the church to 1520 had.

So wouldnt you say that protestant have to be out of contect, they have half a bible

Answer 1

In answer to your question of schisms before the reformation, I would direct you to the book, "The Early Church" by W.H.C. Frend. It is a very good, concise history of the early church from the first century to Leo and Chalcedon (440-461AD). It includes very good descriptions of Gnosticism, Arianism, and Asceticism, among other "heresies."

Martin Luther was a Catholic monk who was trying to reform the RC Church, not start a new one. Your comparison to Hitler is hardly apropos.

As for the Apocrypha, the reason the Protestants count them as non-canonical is because they are not present in the Jewish Bible (Tanakh or תנ״). Some Protestant Churches do use them for "example of life and instruction of manners." (Articles of Religion, Article VI) In addition, we include in the Apocrypha, the books 3 Esdras, 4 Esdras, and The Prayer of Manassas, which the RC Church does not. Therefore, I would argue that we are not using only "half the bible."


Edit: I recant my critique of your comparison between Luther and Hitler. After further research, I have learned that Luther became quite an outspoken anti-Semite in the years immediately preceeding his death. My apology for to you.


Edit to illinizam08: You are incorrect in the last statement of your second point. The reformation came at about 1546 in Germany. The King James, or Authorized Version, was first published in 1611 in England.

Answer 2

1. The reformation marks the separation of a large portion of Christians away from the Catholic church. These people, both Catholic and Protestant, were and still are Christian. Christianity was spreading or was attempting to spread. Missionaries were even found in places like China, Japan and in North America attempting to convert natives during these times.
*Correction: I believe there was only one Christian church prior to the reformation.

2. Good question. I would like to answer this more fully but I do know that certain books (i.e. "Thomas") were removed by the Catholic church even before Martin Luther's changes due to the fact that some portions of these books came under careful scrutiny and were determined to be nixed because of discrepancies between portions of the text and doctrine. Maybe Martin Luther was having similar thoughts when he decided to reform, I'm not for certain. But correct me if I'm wrong people, Martin Luther's revision of the Bible was the original St. James version.

It is true that we Christians use a book that some may call incomplete, but the thing is with the bible, it is only somewhat written chronologically when looking at how the Bible is set up (New Testament then Old Testament) and certain books within the bible tell a story (, obviously chronological, one can't say that just because one book comes after another, it was written after the other.

* may I remind you that the Bible is a collection of books, so the Bible is more of a series not really just one book per say.

I love to explore my faith. There is one thing that I have concluded that I find pretty cool: There will always be something more out there for me to learn about my faith. There is an endless amount of information about my faith. I read something about it, God just lays another thing for me to read or hear from somebody out right in front of me.

Correction: Purgatory

I could say that those entities are not contained in the Holy Bible, but you are correct, I would be lying to you.

Be careful, it is easy to take certain verses in the bible out of context. There are some versus of the bible that even modern scholars are afraid to determine their true message. That is what is so exciting about the bible.

I've always wanted to at least read the "Cut scenes" of the bible. Let's just say that if there was a portion of the bible that proved to be useful and proved to be important to informing the world about key pieces of Christianity, I doubt that the Early church would have deleted them. They were having enough trouble as it is trying to spread the faith. Missionaries were getting their heads chopped off and the like. The more information that was passed out, the better. The more accurate the information, the better. The more easy to the ears the information, the better.

There is a widespread belief that SOMETIMES a preacher has been known to slip up and take a verse out of context. Humans aren't perfect people. I just advise that when reading the bible, don't take it for face value. Read each verse and take it with a grain of salt. Don't rely on just one verse to settle your appetite, read the whole chapter. Do you think that I am typing this hoping that a person will come along and only read one sentence? NO!! I want them to read the whole darn thing!

Answer 3

What’s the difference between a “Catholic Bible” and a “Protestant Bible”?
Catholic and Protestant Bibles both include 27 books in the New Testament. Protestant Bibles have only 39 books in the Old Testament, however, while Catholic Bibles have 46. The seven books included in Catholic Bibles are Tobit, Judith, 1 and 2 Maccabees, Wisdom, Sirach, and Baruch. Catholic Bibles also include sections in the Books of Esther and Daniel which are not found in Protestant Bibles. These books are called the deuterocanonical books. The Catholic Church considers these books to be inspired by the Holy Spirit.

Answer 4

Protestants, Roman Catholics and Greek Orthodox all have the same 27 books in the New Testament and the same 39 books in the Old Testament.
The only difference is the Apocrypha (that Roman Catholics and Greek Orthodox use), a collection of Uninspired writings written during the "silent centuries" (400 BC - 27 AD)

Reasons why the Apocrypha is Not inspired:
-Not one of them is in the Hebrew language, which was alone used by the Inspired historians and poets of the Old Testament.
-*Not one of the writers lays any claim to Inspiration.
-These books were Never acknowledged as sacred Scriptures by the Jewish Church, and therefore were Never sanctioned by our Lord.
-They were Not allowed a place among the sacred books, during the first four centuries of the Christian Church.

*This forms a bizarre contrast with passages in the New Testament:

"Take No thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. For it is Not ye that speak. but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you" (Matthew 10: 19-20).

"Now we have received. Not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God: that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, Not in words which man s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth" (1 Corinthians 2: 12-13)

Answer 5

The Protestant Bible is not just half...you can read about it in many sites about theology.Our Bible is the original.And Catholics split form Protestant because of Martin L.K., when he protested about the facts that Priests should married and also because of paying the indulgences to the church.That's when the protestants follow a different way.We also don't adore the Virgin Mary (we don't say she is not in Bible, she is but nothing mention her has a GODDESS)or any idols...Oh and yes there were many christian, specially those that died in the arena's because of the Roman and Greek persecutions, rem member??

Answer 6

Part of the 'problem' is that the 'Bible' (today) is wrongly divided (2 Tim. 2:15). The 'Catholic' church apparently has not rightly divided it (today) either. I have presently outstanding documentation sent to the local diocese regarding it.
As for the books Martin Luther subtracted from the 'Bible'; I agree with you presently. (I was raised in a Protestant sect; see my profile if you wish).

Answer 7

What the recent document from Rome addresses is the more subtle question of the relationship between the Catholic Church and other Christian churches and ecclesial communities. The Church Fathers of the Second Vatican Council taught in Lumen Gentium article # 8 that the Church of Christ "subsists in" the Catholic Church rather than "is" the Catholic Church. This means that the Church of Christ is found in the Catholic Church and is comprised of all those rites that confess the Church to be one, holy, catholic and apostolic, as proclaimed in the Creed, and recognize the Pope as the successor of Peter.

This distinction also recognizes that while the Catholic Church possesses all the constitutive elements of the Church founded by Christ, other Christian communities that have broken communion with the Catholic Church retain many of these same elements of sanctification and truth, including baptism and the transforming presence of Christ in Scripture. As such, the means of salvation in the Lord Jesus are available to non-Catholic Christians since they too have been baptized into the Lord's death and resurrection. This distinction also reminds us, as members of the Catholic Church, that while we have maintained unity with the apostolic church established by Jesus Christ, we are always in need of conversion and repentance both as individuals and as a community of faith.

This observation leads to another important distinction that the document tries to clarify. What is the difference in meaning and application between the terms "church" and "ecclesial community"? In order to understand this distinction, we must remember that there are two essential elements that are necessary to constitute the existence of the Church. They are a validly ordained priesthood that is a necessary prerequisite for a valid celebration of the Eucharist. "Validly ordained bishops, i.e., those who are in the line of apostolic succession, validly confer the three degrees of the sacrament of Holy Orders" (Catechism of the Catholic Church, #1576). If these two essential elements do not exist in any community of Christian believers, they do not form a Church but rather an ecclesial community of Christian faith. Thus, many of our Protestant brothers and sisters, whose communities were formed after the Reformation of the 16th century, are called ecclesial communities because they did not maintain apostolic succession, many do not celebrate all of the seven sacraments or believe all that is maintained in the Creed as handed down to us by the apostles. They remain, however, communities that are vibrant, alive with faith in the Lord Jesus and committed to the Gospel message to evangelize the world.

It is unfortunate that many have understood these recent documents from Rome as representing a retreat in the work of ecumenism. Nothing can be farther from the truth. Pope Benedict XVI, in his first encyclical, Deus Caritas Est, had this to say about ecumenism and the progress needed to be made, "Union with Christ is also union with all those to whom He gives himself. I cannot possess Christ just for myself; I can belong to Him only in union with all those who have become, or who will become, His own. Communion draws me out of myself towards Him, and thus also towards unity with all Christians" (article #14).

The clear desire that Jesus had at the Last Supper was that all would be one. Perhaps, the Lord foresaw the divisions that would occur among those who would follow Him. How important it is for us today to work for this unity and understanding among ourselves. Unfortunately, human words and theological concepts seldom bring us together. It is the lived relationships of love and acceptance that make us one in Christ and recognize that our faith in Jesus Christ many times goes beyond our theological understanding.

The work of ecumenism, which seeks unity among Christian churches and ecclesial communities, is something that we cannot shy away from. It is to "put out into the deep" and recognize our isolation and work toward the unity that Christ sincerely desired. Pray with me that the work for ecumenism in our own Diocese here in Brooklyn and Queens will bear fruit as we witness the mutual love, concern and respect for all who bear the name of "Christian."

Source(s) Bishop Nicholas DiMarzio

Answer 8

I don't understand the question.