O.K. to shorten the original question...this one about David and Jonathon
2 Samuel 1:26 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society
26 I grieve for you, Jonathan my brother;
you were very dear to me.
Your love for me was wonderful,
more wonderful than that of women
Granted they also pursued women...Bathsheba, etc...But, love being more wonderful than that of women...obviously implies homosexuality.
And, please do not say this is "brotherly" love...."brotherly" love is quite different than that spoken of here....
Your thoughts?
2007-08-09 06:26:33 · 7 answers · asked by G.C. 5 in Society & Culture ➔ Religion & Spirituality
Of course i would not love a bird, horse, etc...with a love stronger than that I would have for a woman...
But, I do love a man with a love stronger than that for a woman...
Why do fundies have such a hard time with this concept....the words greater than that for a woman would not be included in the verse if it was only brotherly love....the verse would say....with a strong brotherly love....
2007-08-09 06:45:49 · update #1
You're correct. But you're not going to get anti-gay Christians to agree. (Eyes that cannot see, ears that cannot hear.)
If it were a brotherly love, it would say, "Your love to me was wonderful. Like that of a brother." It would not say the love "was more wonderful than that of women." David was married to a woman. Telling Jonathan that his love passed that of a woman can only mean one thing.
2007-08-09 12:18:37 · answer #1 · answered by Michael B - Prop. 8 Repealed! 7 · 0⤊ 1⤋
I don't think so, but I could be wrong. I wasn't there.Words like that are used differently in different cultures. We use the phrase "making love" when we really mean "doing it", but I don't think thousands of years ago this was the case.
I read a book series called "The Dark Tower" by Stephen King and in it a guy had a love affair with a woman in his youth and she died. Later, he had a little boy much like a son and when that boy died, the prose stated that he had loved that little boy "even more than he had loved Susan Delgado". Throughout the series, at no time did they have sex, implied or otherwise.
David was a passionate person and was probably nuts about his girlfriends/wives, carrying on during his obsessive periods with a particular girl, but realized that his friendship with Jonathan was more fulfilling ultimately because they were close friends and he meant more to him than the women in his life. This seems like a wish for some Christians who want to see homosexuality vindicated in some way in the Bible, but even if David was gay, would that be the result produced? No, because David was not perfect and there is a difference between what the Bible records and what it praises. Even if this were true, there are still troubling passages in the New Testament by Paul and in the OT when God is "laying down the law" that would eclipse this. I am always on the lookout for arguments that the Bible accepts homosexuality, because a) it would be a good way to tick my grandparents off and b) it would make things a whole lot easier. I would seriously love it. I don't think this will do it tho.
I could totally be wrong, but I don't think an implication like this proves what you are saying. Besides, after the whole Bathsheba incident, even if David did it with Jonathan, he's not gay, he's bi.
As for your additional comments, it was recording what HE said, not a narrative and he might not have thought to clarify with the cliche term "brotherly love". Do you say to your brother, "I love you?" or do you say, "I love you with brotherly love?" It seems to me that when the Bible records sex, it's rarely implied and usually obvious. And I am also sick of people comparing homosexuality to bestiality. It's a stupid point at best. Cut it out people.
2007-08-09 13:40:30 · answer #2 · answered by Mrs. Eric Cartman 6 · 0⤊ 0⤋
You are wrong. The love we feel for fellow beings, a Christ like love, is or can be describe as greater than the love for a woman, which tends to be more personal and selfish. The brotherly love of Jonathan and David had nothing to do with homosexuality and everything to do with caring about each other as brothers and followers of God. Your interpretation is wrong and the love spoken of has everything to do with brotherliness. There is no expectation in return for the caring they shared for each other. Both were willing to go out on a limb and even die for each other. Yes, we may feel that way about our spouses also but we are more protective of them. This could be better compared to the love or caring that fellow men-at-arms might feel for each other today, having gone through horrible battles together, saving each others lives, etc.
2007-08-09 13:35:39 · answer #3 · answered by rac 7 · 1⤊ 1⤋
It is an intriguing passage. Unless new linguistic evidence has turned up, the scholarly concensus is that we just can't be certain *exactly* what is meant there.
Something was going on though. You just can't get around that.
2007-08-09 13:41:29 · answer #4 · answered by The angels have the phone box. 7 · 1⤊ 1⤋
what is it with some people that everything must be sex or homo related when the word love is mentioned??
brotherly love is brotherly love.....
2007-08-09 13:38:08 · answer #5 · answered by coffee_pot12 7 · 1⤊ 1⤋
why would a love greater than woman, mean homosexual love- there is greater love then sexual love you know- it is not the only kind
2007-08-09 13:35:01 · answer #6 · answered by AdoreHim 7 · 2⤊ 2⤋
Women aren't equipped to give him what he really liked.
2007-08-09 13:34:56 · answer #7 · answered by Murazor 6 · 2⤊ 1⤋