was it really "Al nakbah" in 1948?

Question

Im an American who stands with Israel. Im biased, I wont lie, but Im gonna listen to any futile attempts to sway my opinion. Im also good at history and well versed in both testaments. Lets review the facts...
1) This all comes to religion- admit it even if you dont agree. Judaism was founded 4,000 years ago and Jews have been in Israel since the birth of their religion. Islam- 1,400 years ago and until that time had lived almost exclusively in the Arabian peninsula ( except for some nomadic bedouin tribes).
2) Jews had Jerusalem before any religion today, even Christianity and I support that.
3) Jews did not steal land. There always were Jews in Israel and Jews were consistently the majority in Jerusalem.
4) There are many many Christian countries, There are many many Muslim countries. Only one Jewish country- its theirs biblically and historically and who are we to deny them this right?
To me, al nakbah seems to be 622 CE. Peace out Israel, we hope to see you in Tehran, ooorah!

Answer 1

If you really want to nail the Mohammedan propagandists and apologists ( see above . . ) to the wall with cold, hard, historical facts, check out "From Time Immemorial" by Joan Peters.

There was such an incredible backlash from the pro-Arab and Mohammedan communities that shortly after it was published, there was a wide-spread campaign across the States, Britain and Canada to get it off library and bookstore shelves . . . by any means.

Check out your local library and see if they've got a copy. ;-)

If not, it's available on Amazon.com.

All the best! Keep a smile on your faith . . . :-)

Answer 2

Well, there we go again - jews, gentiles. Gentiles jews. Old new new old. I prefer to look truth in the eye. There s beem time way too long since the days of the Old Testament, so lets not get carried away. Israel is a recent country and has not a lot of things in common with the ancient state of Israel led by David, Solomon etc.
That said, the reason we have Israel is simply because we were smarter then those who lives on it prior to the splash of Zionist movement. We have gathered critical math enough to buy and fight it off the arabs, christians or whoever else lived their. Not to say that they are "bad" or anything, it is just that we were sharper. We got it. And it was fought for like the mother land which eventually it is.

Answer 3

I consider myself a Zionist and even I cannot agree with what you have stated. Mainly because most of it is irrelevant.

So what if Judaism is older than Islam?

So what if their was a Jewish majority in Jerusalem? What right did that give for Israelis to expel Arab civilians from the Galilee?

the nakbah (catastrophe) was exactly that for the Arab world. They were not able to stop Jews from creating a nation state and in the process hundreds of thousands of Arabs were expelled from the state of Israel.

That being said I believe a lot of blame for it lies with the Arab world as apposed to Israel. Granted Israel did commit serious crimes during its war of Independence. Such things can be argued as done in the heat of battle, but it is not an excuse.

That being said if the Arab world did not start a fight in the first place, did not attack Jews in the area for decades, none of it would have ever happened.

The Arabs started this war, as such they must take responsibility for their actions and realize they share blame in the Palestian plight. Unfortunately did dose not seem like this will ever happen.

Answer 4

Young man, there are different ways to discuss subjects like this.

I was living in Israel as a child, before you. I had no neighbors because our family lived in the hills away from the city. I walked far to play with the children after I worked in the field and tended the animals.

I had 2 Palestinian friends. their names were Malik and Haythem, I will never forget.

The Palestinian people were the closest people to our home then, before we moved to the United States. I am grateful we moved because of all the war, but I also don't like when they say it was their land. I was there as a child, and I will go back to retire in 5 years. My father is there, and he is sick. I will be visiting him soon before he dies.

i am very sad at the treatment of Holocaust survivors. We have a financial obligation to them that is not being met.

I want young people to not be so angry because of how things are. I want young people to work towards building better government and helping their country stabilize.

Answer 5

Goddamn man, you are RIGHT! Are we the only people in the world to back up the Israelis?, the world has to wake the hell up. O btw I checked, Jews did have a majority in Jerusalem throught the millenia, to that guy who didn't believe it. Besides, the Jews made Jerusalem what it is today. We owe our civilization to the Greeks and the Jews of Israel so the Jews damn well deserve a country, not only deserve, it was ALWAYS THEIRS TO BEGIN WITH!
Jews did not steal land that is 100% true but you failed to mention the fact that in many cases Jews legally bought the land of their ancestors (their land) back from Turkish Muslim Effendis who had occupied Israel, at exhorbitant prices.
The real occupiers are the Muslims, who one day decided to come out of the Arabian Peninsula and claim the world as their own.
And it does go according to religion, ur so correct. Judaism is more than twice as old as Islam, and Jews always lived in Israel, Muslims came late, so whose is it do you think?
I don't claim Jerusalem for Christianity or Islam ( jeez they already have 2 holy cities, how many more do they need?)
I agree that Jerusalem is exclusively for Jews, for they developed and built it from the time it was nothing more than an armed fortress.
Fine if you dont agree with Israel being Israel in an ancient sense. You can goto hell, but look at the modern aspect.
All of Israel's major wars were meant by the Arabs to exterminate the Jews and to use the ever classic phrase "push the Jews into the sea". In its 1948 war for independence and hence, survival, the Jewish freedom fighters rallied only three years after the end of the horrors of the holocaust to smash 7 Arab countries (and several Arab irregular militias )that had modern airforces, armies, etc, despite being outnumbered hundreds to one and being severly deficient in supplies and weapons (it was an infant country born a day before the Arabs invaded).
Look at Israel today and be glad that it is Israel(as it rightfully should be, no question of that!) - Look at what that scrappy little country has done! A country that contributes greatly to society and technology/science. How would it look if Israel was all palestine? The incompetent degenerates cant even maintain themselves as terrorist groups, they could never handle a country.
Israel has proved countless times both in the bible and history and on the battefield, that it is ISRAEL and nothing else. LOL the statement about Tehran, I agree. Lets join up with the Israelis and wipe out Mahmoud ImaNutJob.

Answer 6

I think you are living in dark age when it comes to the issue of Palestine Vs Israel.
1. Israel was created by socialist and Marxist Jews where most did not believe in God to start with.
2. There is not one country in the world is willing to recognize Jerusalem as Israel capital and most are christian states.
3. The majority are the Palestinians by all counts.
4. A Jewish country or a Muslim country or a christian country in the holy land will lead to endless religious wars where each religion think God is on its side.
5. You may win some battles but you never going to win the major war peace is the missing link in the Zionist state.
6. You must realize by now you are not alone living on this plant and lies can not last for ever only the truth will set you free Palestine has the same right to exist too and the same right to defend it self as well.
7 I am a Palestinian Chai.

Answer 7

nicely, the creation of Israel became actual a disaster for the Arabs. however the Arabs that chosen to stay in Israel are voters of that state and can be unswerving to it (exceptionally on account that they have plenty greater effective lives than in the event that they lived in an Arab usa). it may be like having an American textbook in Mississippi announcing that the abolition of slavery became a disaster (it became for the South). completely unpatriotic and racist. purely like having the word "nakba" used in an Israeli textbook.

Answer 8

I agree with your point of view that the Israeli's are right, but I usually focus on a more recent historical and political outlook. It is funny that people here are calling you a racist, when you haven't made any bigoted comments at all. Almost every Pro-Israel comment in this section is either based on cold logic, or at least doesn't call on the destruction of Islam. This is opposed to the Anti-Israel posters, half of which claim Israeli's are everything from pigs to Nazis to child murderers.. It seems that whenever they can't debate facts, they just scream for the destruction of Israel.

To Msafwat: while I don't agree with your views at least you are polite.

Answer 9

Here is 20 truths that people should always remember in addition to what you've said:



1. Nationhood and Jerusalem - Israel became a nation in 1312 B.C.E., two thousand years before the rise of Islam.

2. Arab refugees in Israel began identifying themselves as part of a Palestinian people in 1967, two decades after the establishment of the modern State of Israel.

3. Since the Jewish conquest in 1272 B.C.E. the Jews have had dominion over the land for one thousand years with a continuous presence in the land for the past 3,300 years.

4. Arabs have only had control of Israel twice - from 634 until the Crusader invasion in June 1099, and from 1292 until the year 1517 when they were dispelled by the Turks in their conquest.

5. For over 3,300 years, Jerusalem has been the Jewish capital. Jerusalem has never been the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. Even when the Jordanians occupied Jerusalem, they never sought to make it their capital, and Arab leaders did not come to visit.

6. Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in Tanach, the Jewish Holy Scriptures. Jerusalem is not mentioned once in the Koran. There are vague references to Jerusalem in the Hadiths - stories about Mohammed - that he stopped his night journey (which the Koran explains took place in a dream!) at the "farther mosque" (or "distant place"). Muslims explain that this means "at the edge of the Temple mount", although no direct reference to Jerusalem or the Temple Mount is made.

7. King David established the city of Jerusalem as Israel's capital. Mohammed never came to Jerusalem.

8. Jews pray facing Jerusalem. Some Muslims (i.e. those between Israel and Saudi Arabia) pray with their backs toward Jerusalem.

9. Arab and Jewish Refugees - In 1948 the Arab refugees were encouraged to leave Israel by Arab leaders promising to purge the land of Jews. Sixty eight percent left without ever seeing an Israeli soldier.

10. The Jewish refugees were forced to flee from Arab lands due to Arab brutality, persecution and pogroms.

11. The number of Arab refugees who left Israel in 1948 is estimated to be around 630,000. The number of Jewish refugees from Arab lands is estimated to be the same.

12. Arab refugees were INTENTIONALLY not absorbed or integrated into the Arab lands to which they fled, despite the vast Arab territory. Out of the 100,000,000 refugees since World War II, theirs is the only refugee group in the world that has never been absorbed or integrated into their own peoples' lands. Jewish refugees were completely absorbed into Israel, a country no larger than the state of New Jersey.

13. The Arab - Israeli Conflict - The Arabs are represented by eight separate nations, not including the Palestinians. There is only one Jewish nation. The Arab nations initiated all five wars and lost. Israel defended itself each time and won.

14. The P.L.O.'s Charter still calls for the destruction of the State of Israel. Israel has given the Palestinians most of the West Bank land, autonomy under the Palestinian Authority, and has supplied them with weapons.

15. Under Jordanian rule, Jewish holy sites were desecrated and the Jews were denied access to places of worship. Under Israeli rule, all Muslim and Christian sites have been preserved and made accessible to people of all faiths.

16. The U.N. Record on Israel and the Arabs - Of the 175 Security Council resolutions passed before 1990, 97 were directed against Israel.

17. Of the 690 General Assembly resolutions voted on before 1990, 429 were directed against Israel.

18. The U.N was silent while 58 Jerusalem Synagogues were destroyed by the Jordanians.

19. The U.N. was silent while the Jordanians systematically desecrated the ancient Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives.

20. The U.N. was silent while the Jordanians enforced an apartheid-like policy of preventing Jews from visiting the Temple Mount and the Western Wall.

Answer 10

I've read your blatant racist comments - re. Lebanese, Palestinians, Iraqis...arabs in general.

Still, I'll answer your comment/question-Long, sad story short.....My mother, aunt and grandparents had their home, land, money and jewelry stolen from at rifle-point and driven out of Jerusalem(they were fortunate to be alive, many of their neighbors were summarily murdered - not enough money to brib the Canadian and American Zionist settlers) That behavior is now condoned and institutionalized,
and funded mostly with our(U.S.) tax dollars, in lavish support of the Zionist state of Israel.

Palestine was never the sure place to settle for Jews interested in creating a Zionist state. Argentina and the former Uganda(and other countries in east Africa) were seriously considered for settlement.

Maybe Florida should have been considered too - very practical.

About your statement that you are "well versed in both testaments".....Then you know what the apostle Paul wrote: "There is no Jew or Gentile in Christ Jesus". And you know that Jesus was the final Atonement, the last sacrifice. The Tanuch was fullfilled in His death and resurrection.