Christians: I do not profess great knowledge of your faith or its doctrines but I do have a question.?

Question

(This is long but it’s not THAT long so please be patient and see if you can help me understand this.)

By and large on this forum and others I have seen that Jesus purportedly said: (paraphrasing)

"No one gets to the Kingdom of Heaven except through me."

which is interpreted as:

"No one gets to the Kingdom of Heaven except by believing that I am the Son of God and adopting this as their primary guiding principle."

On the other hand, Thomas Jefferson whom I consider to be an intelligent and learned man once said that the teaching of Jesus were “the most sublime and benevolent code of morals which has ever been offered to man.” – a powerful statement.

So I guess my question is this. Is it possible that my paraphrase above does not imply the interpretation that immediately follows but instead means:

“No one gets to the Kingdom of Heaven except by exemplifying the morals I have put forth in my teachings.”

In other words, it is not that we have to accept Jesus as our

...saviour, per se, but rather that we have to live our lives according to the code He put forth. Is that an unreasonable interpretation?

People not of your faith will often point out that the Bible (especially the Old Testament) is filled with the deeds of a violent God but this is the opposite of Jesus’ main teachings so I wonder if the Bible is “wrong” but that Jesus was “right.”

I’m also trying to resolve for myself that there were members of the early Church who attended the first ecumenical councils and were themselves not convinced of Jesus’ divinity. They were, of course, deemed heretics for their views but it makes me wonder if others more knowledgeable than I questioned this basic premise, perhaps such thinking is not so heretical.

I am agnostic but I wish to understand your faith (and that of others) more so please answer my question as well as possible. And please, as I mentioned I do not know a great deal about your faith and its teachings and the above is simply

... my understanding and subsequent query. If I’m wrong about any of my presumptions or interpretations, please tell me kindly and explain that.

Thanks!

Wussup: OK. Why/How? It's an interpretation of the paraphrase I put forth. Is the paraphrase improper? If so, please tell me how so. If not, it's simply an interpretation which is what the question is about.

Suzy: I don't believe the Bible will give me the answer to this question. As I said, over 17 centuries ago people much more knowledgeable than myself knew the Bible, were bishops in the early Christian church, and still questioned as I am. Perhaps my next statement is incorrect but IF the answers were there in black and white I would think it would be obvious to them, as well.

Perhaps I have been unclear in my question. If the Bible has the answer to my question, please tell me and if possible, where (or, alternatively, provide the quote please) but I don't think the answer I seek is in the Bible itself. As I mentioned twice above, similar questions were asked of people in the early church that had FAR more knowledge of scripture than myself.

Tacs: A good point. Of course, being human, I feel I can only *have* a human-centric point of view, or an infinite selection of views through thought. I'm intrigued by how you might reword my question, though, and answer it.

I am leaving now and wish to thank all of you for answering my question. I hope to read more responses when I return.

Answer 1

the only way to get to the Kingdom Of Heaven is bye accepting Jesus

Answer 2

Your dissertation was thoughtful and not condemning as so many I've read on here. I agree with some of what you've said, as it seems to me also, that God was depicted as vindictive and angry in the Old Testament, and that Jesus was diametrically opposite; i.e., kind and loving and forgiving.

The conundrum I face, is that I was brought up to believe in only one God, and that Jesus, while a scholar and a benevolent person, did not possess divinity, as you state.

Therefore, it is difficult for me to say that accepting Christianity is the only path to heaven, although I do try to honor the teachings of Jesus and Jefferson and other moralists of the time, and still believe in one God. As for an afterlife, that is a concept that I find very hard to accept, since no one has ever been there and come back to tell about it. How do we know there is a heaven or a hell?

Answer 3

Christians not only accept the teaching of Jesus but that he was the Son of God. The Trinity describes a basic belief; that is that God the father, God the son and God the spirit are all the same-just in different forms -So, yes you do have to accept Jesus as the son of God. Jews believe that Jesus was a great prophet and teacher but in early times they did not believe he was the promised Saviour. They believed the Saviour was still to come. Islam began about 600AD with the prophet Mohammed and the Koran is their religious guide.
If one believes in God then why is it so hard to believe in Jesus? If God is all powerful he could do anything icluding appearing in human form.

Answer 4

Hi Simbha 07. These are excellent questions u pose.
The Bible is clear that through Jesus alone is salvation. However, as a condition to salvation Jesus desires that we through his grace may be partakers of his very divine nature and be overcomers in his strength. It is thus we exemplify the morals of his teachings.

To discount Jesus and live an upright moral life is impossible for any human to do without the aid of Christ. This is a works based religion which is not pleasing to God at all and does not secure Salvation.

So all saved Christians will trust in Jesus for their salvation and because they are saved through His merits, will surrender their lives totally, so that He can live and work in and through them for His glory.

In the Old testiment we have Jesus just as we have him in the new. God is the same yesterday, today, and forever, He never changes, His character that is.
God has always been love and always will, He is a God of Love and mercy but also Justice. In the Old testament dispensation or era, God needed to preserve the human race from destroying the holy line to fufill prophecy, that is so that Jesus could be born. He also wanted to show that He looks after his own people, and that He will permit stubborn unrepentent sinners who sporn His love and ways to suffer the consequences of their own sins, ie death. But He always gives sinners warnings. through his prophets. i.e Noah, Moses etc. He will punish the guilty. Imagine if the law of your country did not enforce its own laws, it would lead to many acts of civil disobedience and unrest wouldn't it. Jesus came to magnify the law and honor it, he was not opposed to the O.T at all, rather he filled all the predictions contained in it.

Everything God does is in love and the sinner is the one who ultimately decides his own fate! We have been given freedom of choice by a loving God who accepts the service of love only.

With regard to the councils of the early church i can send u some information on that, its all about the nature of Christ, prior to his incarnation.
Many blessings. Andrew.

Answer 5

Hello. yes, the Bible is complete and is the Word of God. You are correct, non-believer's love to talk about God being violent, etc. in the Old Testament. But they "refuse" to hear that the Old Testament is called the Book of Law. There was no Jesus Christ then, therefore there was no grace, forgiveness, or God's mercy because they lived under instant judgement. When Jesus came and died on the cross for mine and your sins, the Law was abolished and God's grace and mercy took its place. However, forgiveness only comes to those who accept Jesus as their Saviour and live their lives according to His Word. In John 14:6 we hear Jesus say that there is no other way to be saved than through Him. So without Jesus Christ as our Lord, all our goodness or righteousness is as filthy rags before Him.

Answer 6

I think you are, for the most part, correct. People most often read "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life; no one comes to the Father except through me" as an exclusionary statement. But from the very earliest days of Christianity (from St. Justin Martyr on to present Orthodoxy), many have interpreted this as, "insofar as ANYONE finds Truth or Life or sees the Father, it is BECAUSE OF me." In other words, if Jesus is the Logos, the guiding principle to the universe, then anyone who finds the Way, or finds Truth, or finds Life, finds Jesus - and by extension, God the Father - whether they realize it or not. It is the position of the Catholic and the Orthodox church (if I can be so brazen as to put words in their mouths) that all men who find Truth, find Jesus to an extent. The flip side of that is that unless they find Jesus "as he is revealed by the Church" they will only find a portion of the Truth, and not the complete Truth of God. This is what - I believe - the pope was getting at when he recently declared the Catholic Church to be the One True Church. Most evangelicals will disagree with the standpoint I have presented; nonetheless, realize that you are on to something, and there are many Christians who understand and agree with you.

Peace to you.

Answer 7

I won't try to answer your entire question in one post. But I'll speak to the first part, that Jesus might have been saying just to follow his moral code to enter the kingdom of God. First, Thomas Jefferson considered Jesus' teachings "the most sublime benevolent code of morals which has ever been offered to man" because he discounted any of Jesus' teachings that talked of his divinity, his resurrection, or his miracles. The Jefferson Bible "sanitized" the NT to reflect what Jefferson personally thought. Jesus was a good moral teacher, and that was it.
But in a sense, you are correct. Jesus did say "follow me," and to walk according to his ways. The problem is, Jesus' standard for behavior is laid out in the Sermon on the Mount. Even if you've looked with lust at someone, you've already committed adultery. Even if you've said a curse against your brother, you've already committed murder. The standard is perfect. As Peter said, "be holy as I am holy."
The Apostle Paul expands on this in Romans 1-3. All people, whether pagan, religious, moralistic, or Jewish stand condemned before God because none of us measure up to his standard...Jesus' moral code.
So, Christians believe that Jesus not only came to live up to the law, but he died to pay the penalty for our sin. Jesus stood in our place to take the punishment for our sin.
Jesus said, "Come unto me, all you who labor, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am meek and lowly of heart, and you will find rest unto your soul." Jesus came to set us free from the burden of sin by paying the penalty for sin, and he came to set us free from the power of sin, by living inside those who accept his payment, and allows us to live according to his power.
I hope this helps. Perhaps others will take on other parts of your question. You are thinking critically, and that is a good thing. I'd encourage you to call 1-888-NEED-HIM if you are looking for someone to talk to about your thoughts. I used to work there, and they always have a listening ear. God bless.
Randy

Answer 8

What man says means nothing.John 14:6 is clearcut.It is not an ambiguous passage.Take it or leave it.But don't reinterpret it.Leading a philanthropic lifestyle or a monastic one without Christ Jesus is meaningless in an eternal sense.It simply is not up for debate.You can reject the Truth if you desire,but you can't fool a Christian with lofty quotes by Deists.

Answer 9

Man's ideals and thoughts no matter what title or position in life he may be,cannot compare with the teachings of Jesus Christ.God's plan
of salvation will never change no matter how or who tries too.God's plan of salvation isn't rules and regulations,or being good.God redeems
man by and through the blood of Jesus Christ.He paid our sin debt in full at the cross,setting us free to do that which is right in the eyes of God.

Answer 10

I'm of the belief that both your initial intepretations are too human-centric. I believe prophets and Jesus are really trying to describe the relationship between humanity and heavan, and they do this be human-izing it. Unfortunatly people take things too literally. I do believe Jesus was more then a prophet though just like I believe in the spiritual dimension and its ability to interact on a limited scale with the physical dimension.